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Singles: Nice Guys Finish Last?

Started by Newsman, July 02, 2008, 08:14:07 PM

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Newsman

Dating Secret Exposed: Why Nice Guys Finish Last


By April Masini

Special to Yahoo! Personals


Are you a nice guy who has always wondered why the cocky guy -- the one who barely appears interested in the girl -- is usually the one who gets the girl?

Have you suffered from hearing the words, "You're a really nice guy, but I only like you as a friend," from a woman who you would do (or may, in fact, have already done) just about anything and everything for -- only to turn around and watch her date (or even chase) a guy who treats her like she's nothing special? And are you stumped wondering why she would date a guy who treats her like that when she could have you who would treat her like a princess and give her everything she wants? Well, you better brace yourself because I'm going to tell you a couple of secrets that you might not want to hear.

First, "nice" equates with boring and predictable. Look up "nice" in the dictionary and you find: pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory. In other words, average -- not exceptional, not exciting, and not sexy.I'll bet you've never heard a woman say she didn't want to date a guy because he was too confident, too passionate, or too exciting -- have you? But, I'll bet you have heard women say things like, "He's such a nice guy. He's so sweet and he's always there for me, but I only like him as a friend." Or, "He's such a good guy -- kind, thoughtful, generous, honest, loyal -- but there's no chemistry. He just doesn't turn me on." Sadly, I hear it all the time. The fact is, Mr. Nice Guy, you cannot bore a woman into feeling attracted to you or into wanting to date you. And as obvious as that sounds, if you are one of those guys I described that is exactly what you are trying to do. And it won't work.

Please understand that I am not suggesting that you mistreat women or disrespect them in any way.

What I suggesting is that you value and respect yourself more.

What I suggesting is that you value and respect yourself more.

To illustrate what I mean: The answer to the question, "Why does the guy who doesn't appear to care as much about the girl get the girl?" is simple: The nice guy cares too much, too soon. He has made the woman too important and too valuable and it shows in everything he says and does. He is too available, too eager to please, too accommodating, and he gives too much -- all without getting anything in return. By doing so, he has made himself appear desperate, insecure, needy of this woman's attention, affection, and approval -- and he has stripped himself of any value in her eyes. After all, if he's already doing and giving everything, without her doing or giving anything - why would she value him? She won't. She is not going to value him any more than he values himself. What she is going to do is look for someone else, someone who she perceives as being more worthy, more confident, and more valuable.

It works like this:

Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation.

Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation. You are in a position of weakness and you are perceived as weak. Someone (or something) else is in control of you, the situation, and it's outcome. Men in this situation appear to be anything but confident, strong, and exciting. More, they are perceived as being unworthy and as lacking value.

Translation: Things that are easily acquired, obtained, or maintained, without any effort or sacrifice, lack value... it's human nature.

The secret to why the cocky guy wins with women, over the nice guy, is that he is perceived as being a stronger, more confident guy with more value. How? He never invests everything -- his entire being, ego, and self-worth in what one woman's response or reaction to him is. He doesn't gush with compliments; he isn't always available; he doesn't give too much; and he knows he isn't going to die if a woman says "no" to him. More, his attitude is, yeah, I'd like to go out with you, but if I can't, that's OK -- I'm a busy guy, with exciting things going on, and lots of other options.

Relationship Advice Expert April Masini: Nicknamed "The New Millennium's Dear Abby" by the media, April Masini writes what "Dear Abby" will never print, and what your shrink doesn't have the guts to tell you. That's why she is America's foremost online dating and relationship advice expert, as well as the best-selling author of four books: "Date Out Of Your League", (dating tips for men), "Think and Date Like a Man" (relationship advice for women), "50 First Dates" (ideas for a fun date) and "The Next 50 Dates"(romantic date ideas).

Sis

#1
QuoteTo illustrate what I mean: The answer to the question, "Why does the guy who doesn't appear to care as much about the girl get the girl?" is simple: The nice guy cares too much, too soon. He has made the woman too important and too valuable and it shows in everything he says and does. He is too available, too eager to please, too accommodating, and he gives too much -- all without getting anything in return. By doing so, he has made himself appear desperate, insecure, needy of this woman's attention, affection, and approval -- and he has stripped himself of any value in her eyes. After all, if he's already doing and giving everything, without her doing or giving anything - why would she value him? She won't. She is not going to value him any more than he values himself. What she is going to do is look for someone else, someone who she perceives as being more worthy, more confident, and more valuable.

Although this is true ^  The ones the girls chase after are usually the jocks, good looking, popular, etc. They don't want to be caught dead with some based on appearance only. It's their loss. I, and a lot like me, have never depended on looks. The two times I did, I ended up in bad relationships. I even married one, just to be jilted in the end..... in a strange city to boot.

We have to learn to look at the person who is self-assured, kind and friendly. So the other parts are also true. Be true to yourself. Like yourself first, and don't push yourself too fast. You'll likely be used instead of loved. Do it after you've won her but not on the first date.

Stevebert refers to himself as a music jock. :rofl:

Ashlee

I've never agreed with this.  My problem has always been that the nice guys show no interest in me.  Always the jerks, and the sickos. *shrug*

apsurf

#3
actually in my experience, the article is right on.  So many women I have met said, "Oh I want a nice guy....someday."     I have found that being a nice guy, doesn't cut the mustard with alot of women.  


it seems to me,  the guy also gets caught in a double bladed situation many times.   If he doesn't seem to care too soon, he gets the boot, or if he shows he cares too soon, he gets the boot.  And women wonder why we are so confused much of the time.

Oh well, in my mind anymore, if the girl I ever happen to be interrested in doesn't want a nice guy (or appears to not want a nice guy), then she isn't worth the time to pursue that depth of relationship with.  Just leave it at friends.  (and this doesn't mean that I base that decision on a few min encounter.   It does take a little time to arrive at the conclusion.  For me though that time has shrank of course.)

And I say that respectfully.

Ashlee

I guess it's also nice if the nice guy shows interest.  lol  I've held on for a long time waiting for the nice guy to get interested and then he introduces me to his new girlfriend.  :roll:

So, how do I know if the nice guy is interested and just being nice about it?

apsurf

Another twist to that question is this .....how does the nice guy know the girl is interrested in him....or the girl might be interrested in him pursuing her?

Newsman

   I think there's both something to the article, and something unique about each person.. I don't think any woman likes what they consider a man when he's acting 'desperate.' An interesting corollary to that is, I think what constitutes 'desperate' can vary form woman to woman. Does calling her twice in one day, especially if he didn't speak to her the first time, constitute desperate? Or does she really like/want/expect 4-5 calls per day?

   The level of closeness and contact desired can vary between folks a lot, as well. Go out once a week? Twice? Less often? Drop by after work? etc.

   There's a couple of very attractive and nice women I've taken out, who seem pleased and willing to talk/go out again, whom I may not have contacted for several weeks, or maybe up to a couple of months. My nature is to be a bit embarassed that I haven't talked to them for so long, but that (as per the article,) may play to my advantage.

   Then, how much of the 'macho' , for lack of a better term, image and pattern(s) of behaviour a woman wants  in a man? Some women llook for the "Mr. Mom' type, an appalling and detestable situation for a man to want to be in, IMO. Some want a 'man among men' and will settle (understandably,) for nothing less.. it varies from woman to woman.

   Need to leave for church...perhaps more later.


John  :waving::bustamove:

   

   

apsurf

The mr. Mom role..... :laughhard:

I can bust a gut laughing trying to imagine John in that role.....It would be so out of character for him!!! :laughhard:

But on the serious side....he's right.  It does vary from lady to lady what they want.   

Sis

Well, having been a girl, Hee hee, and having worked with lots of girls, here's some of it.

Girls don't like to be "persued" any more than guys do. Girls don't like desperate people any more than guys do. In other words if you're trying to get too close too soon, a person feels like they're being stalked and that's not a pleasant feeling at all.

People are people. Get to know someone as a friend, then if there's a spark, you will BOTH know it.

If you haven't spoken to someone you like for a long time, call as soon as you can or you're cutting off someone that you enjoy being with totally. So it's been awhile?  You're a newsman. Many times your time isn't your own. A true friend will know that.

I liked Stevebert right away, and he liked me, too. But we just went out with the crowd from work and reacted in public only for a long time before we got serious. Remember we weren't in church but that seemed the best way to go about it.

A woman who's been burned by the jocks and the popular might very well be waiting around the corner. Someone looking for YOU.

If you find yourself liking someone, ask her out. If she goes out with you, ask right at the end of the night if she'd like to do it again. You will get your answer right there. If she says no, honor that and move on. If she says yes, take it slow and don't push her away.

There are some things that really turn PEOPLE of both sexes off. Getting into serious conversations about things you feel deeply about. Religion or politics can be pushing too hard too fast. Looking at a woman and telling her she's a lousy sinner who needs the Holy Ghost isn't exactly good conversation for a first date! :rofl:  Lighter conversations about those subjects will let a person kind of know where you stand, but if you get into a really deep one, you may find out you're doing most of the talking. LOL   Or if she disagrees with you, she may not ever give you another chance.  Keep things light and nothing should be a big deal until you really are "going together".

Newsman is right about most of what he said.

Macho?  Macho is really male dominance. Men acting like polite men?  If you open the door for her and she doesn't seem pleased, don't do it next time. If she acts like she appreciates it, keep doing it up. But even manners can get stifling if you go too far.

Sis

P.S.  Nice guys finish last isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Get the jocks and jerks out of the race first, then the field is wide open.  :laughhard:

If you finish last, it may be because you're out stargazing.   :laughhard:

SippinTea

Quote from: Sis on July 03, 2008, 01:27:45 AM
There are some things that really turn PEOPLE of both sexes off. Getting into serious conversations about things you feel deeply about. Religion or politics can be pushing too hard too fast.

Ummm... *big grin*

Wooby da Webel respectfully disagrees. ;)

Quote from: Sis on July 03, 2008, 01:32:13 AM
If you finish last, it may be because you're out stargazing.   :laughhard:

*sudden coughing fit*

:beret:
"Going somewhere means leaving somewhere. Choosing something means choosing against other things. Gaining something means losing something else. And between the old and new--the 'was' and the 'not yet'--there exists only one thing: a very frightening journey called faith."
--taken from the book Coming Up For Air

Newsman

You rang, dear?


John  :waving::bustamove:

Quote from: teacheroftheLord on July 02, 2008, 09:31:03 PM
I've never agreed with this.  My problem has always been that the nice guys show no interest in me.  Always the jerks, and the sickos. *shrug*

sunlight

:reg:
* sunlight respectfully disagree's with this...  
QuoteGirls don't like to be "persued" any more than guys do.

I think most girls like being persued... BUT, there is a difference in persuing and stalking...
  :attackhug: Be full of hugs!

Ashlee

Yeah, I tend to get in serious deep discussions with a person if I'm really comfortable with them.  So, that's a plus

If you don't know if a girl is interested in you being interested in her, how about you ask?  I've enjoyed getting to know you, but I'd like to get to know you even better.  Would you consider joining me for dinner on such and such date?  *shrug*

Sis

#14
Showing interest and persuing are two different things. Persuing = chasing? 

Addition: I meant when guys do that they do all the talking. ALSO when you put all your cards on the table on the first date, the person you're with might get a wrong opinion of you. You may say something in a wrong way to make them think you're a communist or something. LOL 

It's best to just keep things light on the first couple of dates until you get to know each other a bit. Stick to likes and dislikes, what church you go to, what types of people you like to spend time with, hobbies, talents. That's plenty to hand out to new people in the first couple of get togethers.

Save your deep philosophies for the third date!   :laughhard:

Newsman

I'll share my 'line' for asking a woman out to dinner

"Would you do me the honor of allowing me to take you out to dinner?"


John  :waving:

Ashlee

John, that works too.


Sis, If I can't talk about deep philosophies, then I can't talk about my day job.  *sigh*

Sis

LOL Talk about them with the kiddos during the daytime. They'll take their naps for sure.   :laughhard:

Ashlee

Hmmm. might have to try that. lol

upcchris

Hmm. I'm clueless when it comes to trying to tell if a guy is interested, and I mean clueless, I don't know if he's interested or just being nice.

re: above posts: too much too soon (esp if you're not friends first) = overwhelming + makes girl uncomfortable + makes girl avoid you
too little for a substaintial amount of time = girl thinks guy's not interested + moves on

It's a delicate balance, as with all thinks...but once you got hook line and sinker(i.e the lady as a gf), go for gold (i.e. be the nice guy the article's describing)
Television is proof the people will look at anything rather than eachother

Life would be so much easier without hormones

Of all God's creations, humans are the only ones with enough imagination to be bored

Humans are fallible, and they unreasonably expect everyone else not to be

Tina~Chris

SippinTea

Quote from: Sis on July 03, 2008, 03:20:32 AM
Showing interest and persuing are two different things. Persuing = chasing? 

All depends on who's pursuing and/or chasing. I've no opposition to being chased, provided it's the right guy after me. *ornery grin*

Quote from: Sis on July 03, 2008, 03:20:32 AM
It's best to just keep things light on the first couple of dates until you get to know each other a bit. Stick to likes and dislikes, what church you go to, what types of people you like to spend time with, hobbies, talents. That's plenty to hand out to new people in the first couple of get togethers.

Now there you're getting to the real issue. *grin* How well do you already know the person before you go on that first date?

I guess I'm weird that way, but I won't date someone I don't already know fairly well. *shrug*

:beret:
"Going somewhere means leaving somewhere. Choosing something means choosing against other things. Gaining something means losing something else. And between the old and new--the 'was' and the 'not yet'--there exists only one thing: a very frightening journey called faith."
--taken from the book Coming Up For Air

Newsman

Lady WdW (Wooby da Webel) Brings up another point that must be considered.

   What do we purpose in a date? Is it a social interaction that perhapos has some possibility to develop into a serious relationship, or is it a more serious seeing if the other is compatible for a life mate, having already 'screened' them in some preliminary process.

   I have no axe to grind with this topic, nor am I bitter: I see some of the author's points firsthand, yet see room for uniqueness (you neek up on them. ya know,)


John  :waving:

Sis

Most women don't go out with total strangers, especially Christian women. But even though you are acuqainted with someone, doesn't mean you know EVERYTHING about them.

I knew Stevebert for two years before we started going out. But I knew him at work. I knew he was a nice guy, but I didn't know what he liked and didn't like. We had never talked about his kids. I knew he had two because of the pictures on his desk but not much else.

We talked about those things.

Newsman

   This doesnt just happen for me, so don't incorreectly assume I'm this popular with women, but there was a print and voice mail mesaage for me when I returned to the orffice this afternoon.

   It was from a woman that married my first best friend, and they split up (understandably on her part.) She worked about 14 years ago at a nursing home in another town that I did nursing home services at, for a time.

   She moved to this area, married again, and works for a state agency. She and a friend have decided they want to fix me up with a friend of theirs and that what the calls were about. It was flattering, but I told them one of my many faults, and told them I'd think about it and call them back Monday.

   Got some political stuff going, as well, today..bah. :)


John  :waving:

Sis

OOOO la la To steal a phrase from someone who shall remain nameless but his initials are Newsman.    :laughhard: