Porn addiction destroying my marriage

[kat]

More thoughts. 

When a man engages with porn he is engaging a woman/man sexually ,responding to her/his sexuality.  He is pursuing her/him sexually.  This is always lust.  The reasons behind it do not matter.  The act is what matters.

A woman is not "overreacting" when she recognizes this.  She is calling it like it is.  To distort it and try to parse out whether it's really lust or not is game playing and doing a great disservice to everyone.

Love is action and there is no way that a man doing immoral things and pursuing immoral encounters is "loving" his wife.  Let's get real here.   

To use another person in order to feel in control, powerful or desired is sin anyway you slice it.

A woman is not "projecting" anything when she recognizes and registers that her husband is not loving her when he engages is porn.  She's recognizing the truth. 

[kat]

The worst thing we can do is to distort the definition of love, because then we are left with nothing.  Yes, it is agonizing to recognize the awful truth that while our husbands are doing this, they have totally betrayed us and do not love us.  At those times, we are totally out of the picture for him.  But when that happens an amazing thing takes place, we find out that we are still OK, actually we are more than OK.  We only have God left to turn to, and He never fails us.  Life and love and beauty still exist in abundance. Our husbands do not hold these things......God does, and we are never out of the picture with Him.  He is our faithful and true lover. We just have to keep walking in the fresh air of His beauty and love.  We are home free.  We just need to drink deeply from His well of goodness. 

[Sis]

Excellent posts, Kat. Good psychology there. I don't see anywhere in the Bible where God says it's ok to separate sex from love. Many men try to do it, or explain their "exploits" with it, but it's not real. What you give to yourself  to is what you love.

[kat]

What you give to yourself  to is what you love.

So true!

If we accept a distorted version of "love" from a man who is given over to the distorted thinking that porn creates, we are substituting that for the real definition of "love". 

The only way of thinking that we need to be concerned about is the thinking that comes from the mind of Christ.  I do not need to understand men's distorted way of

thinking or the compartmentalization that comes from trying to justify destructive behavior.  A lot of effort is going into "helping women understand the way men think". 

But, I have to ask is that how Christ thinks?   That is the only kind of thinking I'm interested in understanding.   A woman can get lost in trying to "understand" all of this. 

Don't waste your time; it's too precious. Trust your intuition and protect what is precious to God.  Protect your heart, mind, soul and spirit. Draw close to God and

understand His thinking.  You'll find yourself wrapped in a love beyond words.

[Sis]

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Luke 16:13
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The Bible also has a lot to say about not uncovering your own or other's nakedness. It's sin. I know a lot is about relatives, but if you're not supposed to witness your relative's nakedness, how much more would God hate someone viewing stranger's nakedness?

[kat]

What are the "mistakes" that women make?
They listen to porn distorted perception (lies) and believe it.
What does that distorted perspective say? 

"All men do porn".....If a woman believes this she begins to lower her standards.  She begins to lower the bar and begins to tolerate behavior and attitudes that God never

intended her to tolerate.  She will gradually lose track of her own heart, mind, soul, body and spirit.  She will gradually, like a frog boiling in water, let the lies chip away at

her.  Far from it being the case that her grace will chip away at her husband's sin, she will be gradually eroding her own value base, and soon, she will not recognize what

she has become.  She will wonder what happened to the beautiful girl she once was, full of beauty and faith and wonder.  She will find herself cut off from her own heart. 

Ultimately, her sexuality will be lost completely.

The greatest challenge we face as we face this evil is to stand for the good at all costs.  It is far better to live alone for the rest of our lives in a home filled with the goodness

and purity of the Lord than it is to live with the pollution of porn.  Women are facing the toughest challenges imaginable, but we cannot succumb to the porn, or we stand

to lose everything, especially the beautiful girl child who believes in so much more than what a porn-filled man will deliver.  Women need to hold out for what God intended.

Stand firm in His truth and love.  Keep your homes pure, and insist on a no porn policy to protect what  God cherishes most in this world, especially if you have children in

the home.

[Sis]

Beautifully said. Not to mention we should pray for those misguided women who debase themselves and pose for those magazines. They have a really twisted perspective on love.

Porn can be a problem for women, too. Many women get hooked on it. They start to believe that what is presented is what men want, and the only way to attract a man is to be that way. Don't forget that porn isn't just pictures. I have read for myself some of those letters in Penthouse Forum. My ex used to get it all the time.

The letters about men and what they do to get their sexual fix is horrible. I now have some things in my mind from having seen what it really is about that I can't shake. It comes to mind at the most inopportune moments. They deal with men cheating on their wives, taking more than one woman, and much much worse.

I would dare to suggest that any man who defends all that might be a bit hooked himself.

[kat]

Yes ,Sis, as you said in your previous post,  we can only serve one master, and the fruit we bear in our lives will show which master we serve.

A double minded man is unstable in all of his ways.  This double mindedness speaks to the split that men seem to want women to" understand".  But, it is not God's way.  He is not double minded.

It seems that even in the Christian community there are those that think that keeping the truth about a spouse's porn use secret is the best way to proceed, therby sparing her the heartbreak that comes with it, but she has a right to live in truth and reality, to have her life and to experience the depth of that reality (the good, the bad, the ugly).  To think that she is being spared by keeping her in the dark is the utmost tyranny.

One thing that I have realized through my own experience is that I as women betrayed by my husband can never lose.  I have learned to know that the deep sorrow that I feel in my heartbreak comes from the deep love and commitment that I have held for my husband.  The depth of pain is equal to the love and devotion that I held for him through 24 years of marriage. I have never wept so deeply as I have over this betrayal.  I know that I'm crying God's tears.   So, even in my sorrow, I find myself deeply in love.  It truly is one of the mysteries of God's love.  His love NEVER forsakes us.  Sometimes, it is most profound and clear in our sorrow.  When we come to that realization, nothing can separate us from His love.  We are home forever in His arms.

Each and  every man and woman is precious beyond measure, and we need to stand for the best of what we all deserve, what God has prepared for us.

"We are God's work of art, created in Christ Jesus to live the good life as from the beginning he meant us to live it."  This is the verse that I hang my life choices on.

[kat]

I was thinking that i don't spend my time fighting demons or giving the "devil" any thought.  It's like keeping my lawn beautiful.  It's a waste of time to try to kill weeds; what works is to put on turf builder and build up the grass.  Let the strong healthy grass kill off the weeds, slowly but surely.  What we resist persists.  If we spend any time trying to fight porn or "demons" we are wasting the time that we could be spending basking in God's beauty and goodness.  Life is too short to waste it doing that.  Let's build one another up in Christ's love and truth.  I read a line in one of the Psalms that has stuck with me ever since.  David was talking about "building boundary lines in pleasant places"....... we protect our hearts and souls by drawing boundary lines in the pleasant places away from porn.

[Ashlee]

Does anyone have any contact with Joyful?  She hasn't posted or even visited Godplace since she said she blocked the websites her husband frequented.

[kat]

My heart is very heavy with the silence.  There are sooooo many women suffering at the hands of this evil force.  Joyful is one of millions of women.   I know I long to relieve the suffering.  Everyday I am encountering women who feel like they're going under.  I hope that Joyful has found the support that she needs.  Women are getting so many mixed messages in the church.

On the one hand, we're told to save ourselves for our husbands alone, to be modest and save our sexuality for him alone, to find our sexuality only in the delight that we see on his face as he loves us and regards us as the exquisite creation that we are.....on the other hand we're told not to take it personally when he goes to other women's naked bodies to find his pleasure. Of course, it's nothing but personal!!!!  It's enough to make a woman feel like she's losing her mind.  It's bi-polar crazy making, double-minded nonsense.

When he does this, we are left not only alone, but alone without our sexuality because we have placed it into his hands alone.  When he leaves us for porn, he takes our heart with him and then, we feel lost and totally estraged from ourselves and our own sexuality.  Things need to change drastically.  It's time that we no longer place so much power in each other's hands.  As women we need to gain back our strength...so that we always have ourselves and our sexuality no matter where he chooses to go or what he chooses to do.

[Sis]

I've heard it said about cheating and I suppose it could be applied to porn as well.

So many men/women caught in cheating say they're not hurting anyone.  The time he is spending away from his wife and family IS hurting them.

The time he's looking at other naked women he's taking away from his wife. If he's looking for "power"  he's looking in the wrong place. True power comes from being the MAN of his household. From having a good relationship with God and from being a good father. Other than that, power can be abusive.

[kat]

Men who use porn want women to find their sexuality in them. They want to believe that the look the woman in the picture is giving the camera, is a look for him, a look that he generated (NOT)....... They want the power and control.  It scares them to think that a woman's sexuality comes from somewhere else, something beyond him, something which he can only surrender to and be caught up in..... a force so much larger than himself (God).  Something he cannot control.  So he turns to porn which he can control.  He's afraid to get lost in the largeness of what it means to surrender to a real woman' s sexuality which is so much larger than life, larger than anything, a sexuality that requires total surrender to God.  In that surrender is bliss.

A wise man and true lover knows how to find all women in one woman, all of the unfathomable mystery that resides in her being.  He knows how to surrender to the mystery and knows how to allow his wife to take him there.  He doesn't need variety in engaging with many women, but rather knows how to see deeply into the unfolding of one woman.  He knows how to see his woman unfolding in front of him, and he is captivated by her for a lifetime.

He knows how to create a safe space in that captivation to call her forward as he sees her unfolding.   It is doing all things with one woman, rather than one thing with many women.  The variety is found in the continually new discoveries within one woman rather than the superficial uncovering of many women. 

Men can't have it both ways.  It's one or the other....

power, control, domination and objectification for selfish lust and desire 

or

surrender, adoration, tender compassion and self-sacrifice for love.

In one bliss is found.

In the other, relentless torment.  The choice is his to make.

[kat]

The devastation that a woman experiences when her husband turns to porn is tremendous.  She suffers on every level of her being.  I am tired of the efforts that are being put forth in asking her to "understand" why her husband does this to her, thereby putting a further burden on a woman who is already feeling crushed.  It is insult upon injury, and unfortunately this voice is coming from Christian community more than anywhere else.   

It is like telling a rape victim to understand why the rapist did what he did.  Get into the mind of the rapist and it will help you feel better.  This is insanity.  As if understanding the violation will make this better or take away the pain.  The only thing that can begin to relieve her pain is for her husband to take it upon himself and bear the consequences of his actions, to take full responsibility for the devastation.  Not to hide it in his "addiction".

"Wine and women corrupt sensible men, the customer of whores loses all sense of shame, grubs and worms will have him as their legacy, and the man who knows no shame shall lose his life."  Ecclesiasticus 19: 2 &3

Men need to take the burden upon themselves by recognizing the full reality of what they are doing to destroy women and children on this planet when they consume porn.  Will they feel buried in shame, probably, but shame is the appropriate response to something so shameful.

[Sis]

Kat, you are an awsome writer. Have you had anything published?  You should. And this subject might be a place to start.   

[kat]

Sis, thank you so much.  I have been developing myself as a writer.  i am preparing a book of poetry/prose right now to publish at some point.  My heart is so deeply touched by this subject, and it seems that life continually brings it to me.  This is my second time posting in any forum.  Joyful's story just tipped the balance for me, and I felt I needed to put my insights into the mix.  I want to contribute what I can to hold for what we all deserve.  I would love to give you a copy of my book when it get finished. 

[Sis]

Kat, check your pms. I sent you a note.

[kat]

Sis......thanks so much.  I got your message. 

[kat]

I was thinking today about what it will take to root this evil out from amongst us.  Again the picture of keeping a beautiful lawn came to mind.  It is the strong grass that eliminates the weeds.  So, we put on turf builder rather than weed killer.  It's the same thing with porn.  We are the beautiful grass, and porn is the weeds.  It is going to take very strong, loving men and women to eliminate this in our lives.

Unfortunately, I am encountering a mindset as I read the books and websites in the Christian community that I think is doing us all a great disservice.  That mindset encourages men not to tell their wives about their porn use.  I listened to one website where men were telling their stories and encouraging other men to come into their group where they could tell the truth together without having to tell their wives (how tyrannical)  They even said "don't worry guys, we've got your back".  In other words, we'll hold your secrets with you.  You can come into our presence, and we'll make you feel good about yourself. No man has the right to keep reality from his wife by telling lies of commission or omission.  How in the world can we begin to think that any of the blessings that God has for us can thrive in secrecy, deceit and betrayal?  That thinking is coming from a porn-distorted mind, and it has infiltrated the church

So men and women are separating into different camps.  The men go into their groups to keep their secrets together away from the women.  After all, women just don't "understand".  So, men hold tightly and firmly in their porn intrenched stance away from women.  As if they will find healing away from women. How in the world do they think that they will find the mind of Christ when half of the equation is missing (women) .  I do not believe that any healing is going to happen as long as we segregate into men's and women's groups. 

When my husband and I finally got into counseling.  I chose a Christian counselor (phd psychologist) who has written a book about wives and husbands.  Unfortunately I did not read the book until after we had met with him for a few sessions.  In that book he explains that men should not tell their wives about their porn use, that confessing this was not necessary and that Christ does not require this. Needless to say, when I read this, I not only tossed the book  into the trash but did not return to this counselor.  However, it saddens me greatly that many men and women will read that book, follow that advice and be further damaged. Porn has become a dividing line, and it is driving a wedge between men and women, especially in the church.

What does the insidious voice of porn say? "women just don't understand".  That the problem, once again, is women.  If women could just "understand" the way men think, then men could begin to change.  What a bunch of nonsense.  It is going to take men and women, coming together, putting on the mind of Christ together to begin to make a change in this. 

[kat]

It takes a life-time for a woman's full beauty to be revealed.  It is a wise man who knows how to revel in her unfolding.  He will reach the end of his life, having found God and unafraid to continue to move into the mystery.  What an exquisitely beautiful plan God has made for us in the sanctity of marriage, the sacredness of finding all that there is to be found in one man and one woman......How beautiful.

It takes a courageous man to shoulder the burden of the pain he has caused his wife with his porn use.  Now, part of her unfolding involves deep sorrow and pain.  When he holds her in his arms, he will encounter sorrow.  Some men are having the courage to do this, Others are asking her to bear the pain alone, telling her that forgiveness is letting it all go and moving on.  They are more than happy to let her carry the pain so they can skate free, saying "thanks honey for being Jesus to me and carrying this so I can go free".  A true man would take the burden and the shame upon himself to set his wife free.  A true man will let himself feel the sorrow with her.

[kat]

We women need to begin to see ourselves and to find our sexuality where it truly resides in the heart of God.  It is large and beautiful and is capable of capturing a man for a lifetime.  We need to let go of the porn-infused notions that we were raised on which tell us that we are just a sum total of superficial body parts and superficial appearance. 

When our sexuality hits the wall of a man's porn-filled eyes and falls in pieces to the ground around us, we need to know that what we will find next is the truth of who we are and have been created to be.  The only thing we've really lost here has been all of the lies and the façade.  That is what has shattered.

What we begin to find in the lonely nights where all we have is God to reflect back to us who we are is a picture of the truly brilliant creation that we are.  Each woman holds all of the glory of God within her.  We are exquisitely beautiful creations, perfectly suited to our husbands.  That is the truth.  It is important to only engage with a man when he is able to reflect the truth back to us.  If we continue to see ourselves reflected in porn-filled eyes, we will not be able to see clearly.  Do not look into his eyes until we can see the truth reflected back or we will suffer greatly.

[kat]

A real man does not view porn. 

A real man does not lie and deceive his wife/girlfriend.
A real man is honest, open and transparent with his wife/girlfriend.

A real man does not use men, women and children as fantasy fodder.  He recognizes them as being God's exquisite creation placed here on the Earth for God's purposes not his.

A real man does not define love to include porn use.

A real man protects what is precious in God's eyes with his life.

A real man would turn porn magazines over when he sees them on the magazine rack.
                 


A real woman does not listen to porn lies.

A real woman does not allow her sexuality to be desecrated by anyone, including her own internalized porn voice.

A real woman holds out for a real man and does not settle for anything less.

A real woman recognizes the truth of who she is in Christ and lives by that truth. 

                                               Let's all be real men and women.

[titushome]

I am tired of the efforts that are being put forth in asking her to "understand" why her husband does this to her, thereby putting a further burden on a woman who is already feeling crushed.  It is insult upon injury, and unfortunately this voice is coming from Christian community more than anywhere else.  

It is like telling a rape victim to understand why the rapist did what he did.  Get into the mind of the rapist and it will help you feel better.  This is insanity.  As if understanding the violation will make this better or take away the pain....

I encourage any woman interested in this issue - especially any woman who knows the pain of having a husband who is or has been unfaithful through pornography - to try to understand why her husband has done what he has done.

But I agree with you that the goal is not to "make [it] better or take away the pain."  The reasons it may help to understand are 1. to reinforce that it's not her fault, i.e., her husband's unfaithfulness is not due to any supposed inadequacy on her part; and 2. to help her husband overcome his addiction.  The second reason is perhaps the more important one, because no married man can conquer sexual addiction without his wife's help.  Yes, this puts an additional burden on the wife, who is the real victim; but there's simply no way around it.

Unfortunately, I am encountering a mindset as I read the books and websites in the Christian community that I think is doing us all a great disservice.  That mindset encourages men not to tell their wives about their porn use.  I listened to one website where men were telling their stories and encouraging other men to come into their group where they could tell the truth together without having to tell their wives (how tyrannical)  They even said "don't worry guys, we've got your back".  In other words, we'll hold your secrets with you.  You can come into our presence, and we'll make you feel good about yourself. No man has the right to keep reality from his wife by telling lies of commission or omission.  How in the world can we begin to think that any of the blessings that God has for us can thrive in secrecy, deceit and betrayal?  That thinking is coming from a porn-distorted mind, and it has infiltrated the church

So men and women are separating into different camps.  The men go into their groups to keep their secrets together away from the women.  After all, women just don't "understand".  So, men hold tightly and firmly in their porn intrenched stance away from women.  As if they will find healing away from women. How in the world do they think that they will find the mind of Christ when half of the equation is missing (women) .  I do not believe that any healing is going to happen as long as we segregate into men's and women's groups. 

I absolutely agree with you.  My wife and I have discussed this at length.  Men's groups that purport to help men overcome their porn addictions are geared toward one thing: changing the man's behavior.  And it's easier for most men to confess their problems and seek help from other men who struggle or have struggled with the same sins.  It's easier when there are no women present; the men feel more comfortable.  But comfort is not the goal - victory are healing are the goals.

But the problem with this approach is that it's a shortcut, a cheat.  When our aim is only to modify behavior, it's too easy to bypass allowing Christ the opportunity to transform the heart, in which is the root of all behavior.  Thus the real solution - genuine transformation, complete healing - never enters the picture.  At best, outward behavior changes, but that's all.

The Scriptures tell us that we must confess our faults one to another.  And confession must begin with the ones who have been wronged/harmed by our sinful actions.  So men's meetings that purportedly help men overcome their sexual addictions, yet by design exclude the men's wives, have already failed at the most basic level.

When my husband and I finally got into counseling.  I chose a Christian counselor (phd psychologist) who has written a book about wives and husbands.  Unfortunately I did not read the book until after we had met with him for a few sessions.  In that book he explains that men should not tell their wives about their porn use, that confessing this was not necessary and that Christ does not require this. Needless to say, when I read this, I not only tossed the book  into the trash but did not return to this counselor.  However, it saddens me greatly that many men and women will read that book, follow that advice and be further damaged.

What book and counselor are you referring to?  If you prefer not to mention them by name in a public forum, would you mind telling me in a PM?  Thanks.

[kat]

Titushome,
I hear what you're saying.  One thing that I've encountered has been a lot of different opinions on porn addiction.  In my case, none of the 4 counselors that we have seen have diagnosed an addiction and they all supposedly are experts in this area, so I am left with my husband's porn use and lying about it for several years as simply purposeful behavior and that it was about my inadequecies  (not beautiful or sexy enough etc.....)  I don't know what there would be to understand.  It just hurts. He just wanted things that I can't give him and other women can. Sometimes, we are inadequate, and that is what we have to face.  I am not beautiful to him, but I'm learning to be OK with that.  I know God loves me just the way I am.

I am glad to hear that you agree about the healing that is hindered when the wife is cut out of the process.  I have very strong feelings about the truth being denied to the partner.  Unfortunately, we learn some of our most valuable lessons in life from intensely painful situations.  To keep the wife from the truth so she doesn't have to deal with the pain does not do her any favors.  Will she be devastated?  Yes, but the porn use has already devastated her on a spiritual level anyway.  Getting the truth allows her to gain back her sanity....all the times that she questioned herself because of the lies she was being told eroded her trust in her own intuition and mental processes.  The truth allows her to get that back.  At least she can finally have herself back, and can begin to build a foundation based on reality instead of illusion.  It totally boggles my mind that Christians can really believe that it's OK to hold these secrets and continue to have her base her life on an illusion.  She is the one who is impacted by his sexual behaviors why would those be confessed to strangers instead of to her.  It really just violates her further by giving the information to everyone else but her.  She is the last one to know.  It's just wrong in my opinion.

I don't want to name the author of the book, because we did see him as a counselor. 

In the book he actually chastises men for telling their wives about their struggle with porn and says to them when they visit him "Why did you tell your wife?"  He goes on to say that he does not believe that this does not need to be confessed, that Christ doesn't expect that.  Anyway, those are not the values that I hold, so I moved on.  You have a very kind, compassionate spirit that comes through your messages.  it's good to dialogue about all of this.  I wish you and your wife a blessed night.

[titushome]

...I am left with my husband's porn use and lying about it for several years as simply purposeful behavior and that it was about my inadequecies  (not beautiful or sexy enough etc.....)  I don't know what there would be to understand.  It just hurts. He just wanted things that I can't give him and other women can. Sometimes, we are inadequate, and that is what we have to face.  I am not beautiful to him, but I'm learning to be OK with that.  I know God loves me just the way I am.

Oh, God - I've never heard this viewpoint expressed before.  And I'm sorry it's that way between you and your husband.  I'll be praying for you both.

From my perspective - which in no way discounts yours - and, I think, the perspective of many other men who are or were hooked on pornography, we do find our wives beautiful and sexually satisfying.  But our problem, as I described in one of my previous posts, is that we allow(ed) our thinking to become warped and consumed by lust, which can never be satisfied.  This does not mean my wife is somehow inadequate; it means only that my lust cannot be satisfied.

I wonder how many men and women dealing with sexual addictions have experiences more like yours, and less like mine.  Now that I think about it, without Christ - without the desire to do right, and overcome these addictions - most men probably do, as you say, view their wives as inadequate and not beautiful, or at least not beautiful enough.  Is your husband a Christian?

The way you're dealing with the situation is admirable, and I'm blown away by the strength and grace of your spirit.  You might not feel strong, but it's apparent through your words that you're finding your strength in the Lord.  I second Sis' suggestion that you write a book, for the sake of the women whose husbands are destroying their marriages with their sexual addictions, with no desire to change.

I don't want to name the author of the book, because we did see him as a counselor.

Sorry to be so persistent, but may I ask you again to send me his name privately, in a PM?  I don't want to read his books or recommend them to others if his approach is as you've described.