Those Independent Women!

[RainbowJingles]

Okay...  I faced a dilemma last night.

The Safeway (grocery store chain) stores around here have excellent customer service.
Even the people in the express lane will ask if you'd like help out to your car.  :-)
It's kind of funny at times.  I'll go in and buy lunch from the deli and a drink from the impulse-buy fridge near the register, and they might ask if I need help out to the car.
But last night was a bit different.  I had gotten some groceries for a friend, as well as a few things for myself.  When I got to the register, I had 3 gallon jugs (milk & water), six [6-packs] of water bottles (they were on sale for $1 a pack!) and various other assorted items (maybe six bags full).
Did I need help?  Yes.  I was tired.  The bottles seemed heavy, even though the cashier put each thing in individual bags for me so I'd have handles to lift them.
Did the cashier ask if I needed help?  Of course.  He actually seemed a bit concerned and asked two or three times if I was SURE I didn't want some help.  (Did I look THAT tired/helpless/weak?)
Did I accept his offer?  Of course not.

Why?

THAT, my friends, is a good question.

Was it because I didn't think I had any single bills to give someone a tip?  I'm not even sure if they accept tips there, so I wouldn't have known what to do.
Was it because my van was a mess and I didn't want someone to see?
Was it because I'm so picky and knew that I wanted some things in the back of the van and other things in the side area and didn't feel like giving direction to someone about exactly what I wanted?
Was it because it was cold and rainy and I felt bad for inconveniencing someone in bad weather?
Was it because it was late at night and it looked like they were short-handed?
Was it really a combination of all of the above...

OR am I just becoming so independent that I'm incapable of receiving help, and so I make excuses so as not to "inconvenience" someone?
I think I'm still okay.  Whenever there is a capable gentleman around who offers, I allow him to help me as much as he is able.

ALTHOUGH...  come to think of it, if he's not in the process of doing the thing that he offers to do, I usually continue doing it myself and say "that's okay" or "thanks; I'm fine".  lol
i.e.: "You need some help there?" (spoken while he is seated and my hands are full)  vs.  "Here; let me help you with that" (spoken as he rises from his seat, moving swiftly to help "rescue" me).
or  "Would you like to sit down?" (spoken while he is reclining in the last seat in the house) vs. "Have a seat, ma'am" (spoken while rising from his chair and going to the kitchen to bring in another chair).
Perhaps that's what it was last night.  There was no one around, and I knew I'd have to wait for help and inconvenience someone, etc.  Maybe I'm not as far gone as I thought I was.

There's a grocery store in Mississippi (Brookshire's) that has enough baggers until every customer receives escort from the store into the parking lot.  The baggers are not allowed to receive tips.  After they bag your groceries, they stand there with their hands on your cart and wait for you to finish your transaction, and then begin pushing the cart out the door.  The first time this happened to me (a couple years ago), I freaked OUT.  lol  I was like, "My purse is in there; I'll push the cart, thank you."  but the guy still insisted that he would walk out with me to bring the cart back in when I was finished.  I slowly thawed out over time to the concept that there was someone available to help me every time, and came to love that grocery store.

[RainbowJingles]

Any other ladies have any "I'm Miss Independent" stories?

[SippinTea]

   Too many to bore you with.

Yet another thing I need to work on.

[Amelia Bedelia]

I'm not sure I understand... what is the problem here??  lol

I don't like to put people out.  If I can do it, why shouldn't I?

[newkris]

the problem is with knowing how to graciously allow someone else to be kind to you.

when you are used to doing for yourself, it's hard to allow someone the pleasure of doing something for you.  living in the city, it's hard to trust someone who is being kind.

okay, this will make me look old, but i remember when i was growing up (when stores were closed on Sunday and the busses didn't run) and the baggers ALWAYS packed your groceries and helped you to the car with them.  no one thought anything of it.  then it got to be too expensive for stores to hire baggers so everyone bagged their own.  the next time i saw such a helpful phenomenon was in Thorp at IGA where they will call a bagger to the front and have them bag your groceries and take them to the car.  of course, in Thorp everyone knows everyone and they're all related so it's like "Kyle, you wanna come help Aunt Betty out with the cart?"  And, not only is Kyle getting paid for it, but Aunt Betty is marking her words that boy is nice and come graduation she'll make sure to remember him.     even i knew the kid who was bagging the day i went there.  life is so slow there that it's not a problem and considered an honor to be helpful.

moral of the story:  slow down.  let people be nice to you and then do something nice for someone else.  forget your independance.  it's not all it's cracked up to be!

[Amelia Bedelia]

letting people be nice to you and having them work for you are different

they were nice to offer, and she was gracious about letting them offer... but then she was nice to them and saved them from having to do anything   

I don't consider it independence in a "I don't need you, I can do it all by myself, stop treating me like I'm helpless" feminazi type way
more like non-laziness and not wimping out just 'cause you're female

[Raecheal]

True that Amelia!

[terp]

Sounds like I could've posted that, Rainbow.  Hmm...

My brother has to remind me to not be so "independent."  He tells me that he enjoys helping people when he can and he offers when he can...women and men.  There's more, but another time...

I have "independent" problems when I'm at a car shop or getting my oil changed.  "Hi, I don't want anything but my oil changed...please don't offer."

[Newsman]

   I haven't weighed in on this subject until now..the 'Miss Independent Stance Syndrome' "MISS" is a product of both society and individual lifestyle choices.

   I've dated an Apostolic Lady who _hated_ having the door held open for her, except on special occasions..she didn''t change me.

   Those Ladies who prefer to do most things yourselves are typically either over 22 and never been married, or if you're still in college, have a firmly set mind on much of what you want to do in life. Or, perhaps, divorced/widowed from a relationship where the guy was a jerk, and tends to make the woman reluctant/bitter about trusitng guys.

   So, you have spent more years alone than the young woman who gets married th summer after high school, or after her first year of Bible College. Being alone means doing things your own way, and getting accustomed to being more solitary in your decision making (not saying ths is wrong-just a fact as I see it.)

   Thus, even if you don't have the "femi-nazi" attidtude Lady Amelia described above, you probably have a certain order/way/manner you want Task X to be done in, and correctly consider you yourself are most capable of doing it in the manner you wanted.

   Even as a gentleman, I have had to make some accomodations to modern times. For instance, a gentleman five or six generations might not have taken "no thanks," or even "No way!," for an answer..he might have forced the Lady to accept his help..it's the kind fo situation a guy trying that today would get to have a chat with the local law enforcement for.

   The stark realities of crime (more so in the metro areas, but to some extent even in smaller cities,) has quite understandably made Ladies look askance, even with skepticism/pessimism/alarm, at the approach of a man they don't know.

   A couple of recent incidents comes to mind..I was filling the gas tank, talking to a Lady I knew who was doing likewise..of course, I did not offer to pump her gas for her..we both went into the store, and I got in line to pay.

   She may have went and got something else, and got in line behind me. I stepped aside and motioned for her to go ahead, which she was reluctant to do, despite my statement of "Ladies should go first." The clerk, who knew me, told the woman something to the effect of "you won't win, I know him." She then, although reluctant and perhaps a bit irritated, went on ahead of me.

   Some nights later, I exit a store, and see a woman approachng the entrance from perhaps 20-30 feet away. I step back to the door and open it for her. She never gave any indication of what I had done, or that I existed, unless the not-completely-beaming expression she had on her face was a negative one to me or my action.

   I will not change..I do not have to.. I like the Olde ways. But, I can see how women whp spend so many years 'on their own' have trouble letting someone help them.

   It's also part of what makes us unique..there are some women I would be too old-fashioned for, and they can be perfectly nice women. However, there are still some Ladies that appreciate the old touches of courtesy.


John     

   

   
   

[Raecheal]

Good post John.

I noticed that this morning though. I carried in a box of books related to mental health.. around seven thirty when I came in. I went out to get the second box around nine thirty (my boss's husband was here) and when I left, he asked if I needed help. I let him know I could get it - although I knew it'd be much easier for him and the box is heavy but I was capable. However, he was kind and came anyway saying he could at least hold the doors and when we got to the car, he did bring in the box. I appreciated it and let him know - I don't want to beg or be seen as needy but if the gesture is made - I do respect it. Men who are gentlemen are rare and although I am an independent and capable woman, I still want to be a lady - it's not absolutely necessary.. I don't think any less of men who don't hold the door for me or go the extra mile for a task - but I appreciate and admire those who do in a society where it's misinterpreted at times by some.  Men aren't saying 'let me do this because I don't think you can' - I see it more as 'let me do this for you just because I can' .. If there were the least bit of insinuation that I couldn't do a task and that's why they insisted on it, I might be insulted but if it's obviously something I couldn't do easily enough, I'm realistic and would appreciate it.

[Raecheal]

Anyhow. I don't know if that made any sense whatsoever but I'm done work now and I'm headed home.

[SippinTea]

Men aren't saying 'let me do this because I don't think you can' - I see it more as 'let me do this for you just because I can' .. If there were the least bit of insinuation that I couldn't do a task and that's why they insisted on it, I might be insulted but if it's obviously something I couldn't do easily enough, I'm realistic and would appreciate it.

Good way of putting it, Rae! 

And John, that was an excellent post! Your understanding of the safety side of things was right on target. I'm very leery of men I don't know offering help. I can't help but wonder what they want from me. But at the same time, I can often tell a difference just in the way they offer whether it is just a kind offer or an attempt to get something from me.

[RainbowJingles]

I will not change..I do not have to.. I like the Olde ways.  

Good.  :-)  There aren't many gentlemen left.

But, I can see how women whp spend so many years 'on their own' have trouble letting someone help them.

The hard part for me is that I often say "no thanks" the first time a gentleman offers his assistance, in hopes that he will persist just a little and let me see that he is really serious and not just trying to do the polite thing in offering his assistance.  By the time I realize that I really DO need help, the guy is usually a light year away because he was scared that I'd actually say I needed help, so he ran away as soon as I shook my head and said the "that's o..." part of "that's okay."

When I lived at home, I actually kind of leaned almost to the total opposite end of the spectrum, as I had my brother around and could ask for help from a strong, good-looking guy anytime I needed it.     I learned that it was awesome not to have to carry heavy things.  I got spoiled when he would go to the grocery store with me and load most of the heavy stuff in the car and carry it in the house with such a wonderful, helpful attitude.  (his wife is a lucky lady!)

It was kind of funny when I started hanging out with a guy who was interested in me.  I found that he took me to be a bit on the bossy side when I would ask for his help in what I thought was a mild-mannered way.  He had no sisters, and wasn't sure how to do the whole gentlemanly thing sometimes.  If we started out the door and I was carrying several things and he had nothing to carry, I would turn to him and say, "would you mind helping me out a bit, please?"  I actually got irritated that someone who claimed to be interested in me didn't even bother to ask if I needed help when I was obviously carrying something heavy.  He didn't last long.  lol

However, there are still some Ladies that appreciate the old touches of courtesy.
John     

Yup.  We sure do.  Problem is that sometimes we have trouble being able to *accept* them.  Keep being patient with those ladies, John.  If enough gentlemen arise, perhaps the ladies will soon come out of hiding.  :-)

Men aren't saying 'let me do this because I don't think you can' - I see it more as 'let me do this for you just because I can' .. If there were the least bit of insinuation that I couldn't do a task and that's why they insisted on it, I might be insulted but if it's obviously something I couldn't do easily enough, I'm realistic and would appreciate it.

YES!  That's PRECISELY correct, Rae!  It's all in the attitude.  If his attitude in his help makes me feel protected, safe and/or special, then I'm more prone to accept his help.  If he makes me feel inferior or incapable, I'm much more inclined to get angry at his offer to help and refuse to let him do a thing for me.

[Amelia Bedelia]

Men aren't saying 'let me do this because I don't think you can' - I see it more as 'let me do this for you just because I can' .. If there were the least bit of insinuation that I couldn't do a task and that's why they insisted on it, I might be insulted but if it's obviously something I couldn't do easily enough, I'm realistic and would appreciate it.

YES!  That's PRECISELY correct, Rae!  It's all in the attitude.  If his attitude in his help makes me feel protected, safe and/or special, then I'm more prone to accept his help.  If he makes me feel inferior or incapable, I'm much more inclined to get angry at his offer to help and refuse to let him do a thing for me.

now see that might be when I'd take them up on it 'cause then I wouldn't feel bad for having them do something that I can do LOL   

I understand wanting to be allowed to help someone, that desire goes both ways... but I like to be truly useful and helpful... not just that they are letting me help but that they actually need it

and if I actually need help, I will go get it and allow it and appreciate it... and if I'm able to skip the go get it part, all the better!!!  lol

opening doors... if I really get there first I open the door and will hold it for whoever is behind me regardless.... however  I am pretty good at lagging well in advance of reaching the door to ensure that the guy gets there first and I don't have to move out of the way for him to open it  LOL

[RainbowJingles]

opening doors... if I really get there first I open the door and will hold it for whoever is behind me regardless.... however  I am pretty good at lagging well in advance of reaching the door to ensure that the guy gets there first and I don't have to move out of the way for him to open it  LOL

BUT there are some guys who haven't quite mastered the whole holding the door open thing.  lol  I feel bad for them, because they're holding the door open for a lady and THERE'S NO WHERE FOR HER TO GO because he's standing IN the doorway!  Makes me want to laugh.

Guys: if you're listening (and apparently not many of them have found this thread yet): When you hold the door open for a lady, move behind the door at least a bit so she can walk in and not feel like you're in the way or she's invading your space.

[apsurf]

Sometimes we are on the inside of the door, so then we just hug the door and let them come on in....

[Amelia Bedelia]

Sometimes we are on the inside of the door, so then we just hug the door and let them come on in....

hmmm something seems off here... why not hug them instead? seems like that would be nicer than a... door

[apsurf]

because some of them are total strangers or married....

[RainbowJingles]

I've actually been known to get upset at strangers who - in the name of politeness! - expect me to squeeze by them in a tight doorway .  I'll wait for them to let go of the door, or step back "politely" myself until they get the message, or purposely use another door, because sometimes there's just not room and the guy is oblivious to that fact.  Take the extra couple seconds and move out of the way in some way, shape or form.

*gets down off her pet peeve soap box*

[apsurf]

I will do my best to step out of the way, but if i can't, i hug the door and hold in my gut so they can slide past...

*** had to reedit the post to  make it readable***

(I really hate these editor programs sometimes, but unfortunately they are neccessary)

[RainbowJingles]

I will do my best to step out of the way, but if i can't, i hug the door and * Wash my mouth out with soap * in my gut so they can slide past...

      
                      
      
                      
      
                      

[Sister_Mom]

I will do my best to step out of the way, but if i can't, i hug the door and * Wash my mouth out with soap * in my gut so they can slide past...

Sorry, we all know you meant "hold in" your stomach, it's just that when I saw that I instantly got a picture of you with a bar of soap in your mouth with soap bubbles foaming all around.


I have no problem with a man being a gentleman, holding a door open, letting me go ahead of him in line, etc. things that are done just to be a gentleman.

I do however, have a problem with a man trying to "help" me. Like Newsman said, probably due to my past, but not just a trust issue. It's more from having been made to feel like I would never be able to do anything on my own and now I guess I'm trying to prove I can. So when a man offers "help", I tend to not want to accept, or I want to repay him for the help.

On the other hand, if I had a husband, it would be different. I know that's sounds contradictive, because men like to feel needed, I guess we all do. But if I were to get involved in a relationship again, the first thing I would want understood would be that I don't have to have a man in order to survive. I just don't want a man to get the impression that if I'm interested it's because I can't make it in this world without him, but that if I'm with him it's because I choose to be, not because I have to be, and I'd want to know it's the same with him.

[Chinadoll]

While I may enjoy my bugs and my snakes...   I am not independent.   Admittedly I MISS living with my parents, etc...

I hate driving on the snow.   I hate messing with my car.

But I am somewhat askew at random guys asking to help...   Trying to get better with the church guys and asking for help, etc though if I need it.

Nai

[RainbowJingles]

 

Chinadoll!!!  Been missing you, girl!  You ok?

[wire2john]

On the other hand, if I had a husband, it would be different. I know that's sounds contradictive, because men like to feel needed, I guess we all do. But if I were to get involved in a relationship again, the first thing I would want understood would be that I don't have to have a man in order to survive. I just don't want a man to get the impression that if I'm interested it's because I can't make it in this world without him, but that if I'm with him it's because I choose to be, not because I have to be, and I'd want to know it's the same with him.

I've been wondering lately if this doesn't have something to do with the high number of divorces we see today. It's interesting to me that in a time when a woman couldn't make it without a man, people stayed married. Now, divorce is the norm. The feminist will tell you that all those women before were being abused, etc., etc. Undoubtedly some were, but I'm wondering if a man's conscience didn't keep alot of those marriages together... him knowing that the wife and kids would likely starve without him. Nowadays, a man doesn't have to 'worry' about that, and look at the mess we're in.