The Official 2011 Godplace Christmas debate thread.

[Ebenezer Scrooge]

If you celebrate Christmas you are morons and lunatics. I find that celebrants are just looking for hand outs, free food and paid time off work. Just get back to work and quit bothering us with your blathering away about Christmas.  Then our precious Administrator and his lackey staff wouldn't have to worry about Christmas debates.

[SippinTea]

Well. Your new profile picture makes you look almost dignified, NezzerDear. It's really too bad we all know you're not.

Now then... about that Christmas stuff...

MERRY CHRISTMAS, EBENEZER SCROOGE!!

[Scott]

*sigh*

And so it starts................

[Ebenezer Scrooge]

*sigh*

And so it starts................

My thoughts exactly Christmas is starting and all the Christmas stupidity is here. Bah!

[EricShane]

Scrooge you need a haircut, that aint holiness





lol jk

[Ebenezer Scrooge]

You need to get off the internet and get some work done.

[Mountain Dew]

Christmas trees are pagan! 

No one has ever proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is pure speculation and the quoted scripture is taken out of context.

I've always thought that that scripture (Jeremiah 10:2) was more in keeping with totem poles, that kinda thing that the natives did. But,having said that, we've never had a tree in my life, having been raised VERY conservative pentecost, and we'll not have one this year. Not calling anyone sinful for having one, but 1) it's one less thing for me to deal with and 2) Not having one is one more link to the way I was raised, and the "old path" that I feel seems to be more diluted in some ways. If that makes sense. 

I feel pretty much the same way. Our church has had a pastor that pastored 25 years, another for 23 years, and one for 14 years. They did not celebrate. They did not condemn to hell others who did, but always hoped and prayed that others would see what they did. All those years and many decided they wanted to celebrate Christmas. The undercurrent made things very uncomfortable. We now have a pastor who celebrates.

I do not have a problem with charity at Christmas time, extra time with family, the good feeling associated with giving, etc. I struggle BIG time with the tree. I get nauseated and feel my face flush at the mention of someone joking about me getting a Christmas tree. I have never felt anything Spiritual associated with a Christmas tree. (NOTE: I did say "feel" based on my emotions rather than Bible). Actually, from a child-like viewpoint, it is the complete opposite. As soon as someone backslid from our church, they put on more makeup than those without an Apostolic background, cut their hair (women that is), and put up a Christmas tree at Christmas time.

I suppose the majority of it is that I grew up under someone that had those convictions. However, I prayed that my pastor's convictions (mostly unrelated to the topic at hand) would become my own. For the most part, they have.

I think sometimes we get caught up on what's not really the problem. I don't believe for a minute that someone is going to be lost because they celebrated Christmas, put up a tree, etc....though they may be lost. I have a friend living with a guy to whom she is not married. This man overheard her bragging on the phone about her plans of having the biggest tree in her new town and informed her he had a conviction against a Christmas tree.    She told this thinking I would be proud? I was so confused.

That's like my aunt deciding to go through with an affair, going to a hotel with the guy, and starting to cry with conviction because he turned on the TV. (really happened)

[Chseeads]

Well that's just straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

[Mountain Dew]

Well that's just straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

You're telling me!!!!

[Scott]

That's like my aunt deciding to go through with an affair, going to a hotel with the guy, and starting to cry with conviction because he turned on the TV. (really happened)

Yeah, after all the TV is far worse than the affair!   

I knew men who were so worried about the reputation of the church that they stood at the bottom of the stairs with a clipboard and watched the women coming down the stairs to see whose dresses and skirts were holy and whose showed too much.

It would be funny except that these idiots were sincere and honestly thought they were doing God's work.

[Mountain Dew]

That's like my aunt deciding to go through with an affair, going to a hotel with the guy, and starting to cry with conviction because he turned on the TV. (really happened)

Yeah, after all the TV is far worse than the affair!   

Like..."Don't fornicate; it might lead to dancing."

[Melody]

I have never met someone that didn't do trees that's more annointed  than the ones that do.  If it was a valid principle based on scripture in context rather than personal conviction that's be something to pay attention to, for me.


*pot stirring* lol

[Mountain Dew]

*seasoning for the stirred pot*

Only to a point do I agree with you. The Word may not tell His bride the names of the movies to not watch, but He does tell her to put no evil before her eyes.

He may not command her to not moon people with toe knuckles, knobby knees, elbows, gluteus maximus, or mammary glands; but He did tell His betrothed to be wholesome and modest.

Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image,...
Deuteronomy 29:17 ...their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold,...
2 Chronicles 15:16 ...because she had made an idol in a grove...(a tree not necessarily being the idol itself)
Deuteronomy 12:2, 1 Kings 14:23, 2 Kings 16:4, 2 Kings 17:10, and every other scripture where "green tree" was mentioned with the exception of Ezekiel destroying them as a sign and one use in the New Testament I think...(all with some wording variation)...served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:...

The encyclopedia says that the origin of the Christmas tree was 'probably developed in medieval Germany from the "Paradise Tree," a type of evergreen. This tree, decorated with red apples, was used in a popular Christmas play about Adam and Eve.' (the World Book Encyclopedia C-CH, Volume 3. Pg 415. Column 1. Paragraph 5) It goes on to say that the green now "represents the continuance of life through the winter and the Christian belief in eternal life through Christ." It also continues that "red symbolizes the blood that Jesus shed at His Crucifixion. (not so bad)

The Christmas play of the Garden of Eden sin scene? Celebrating the separation of man from God?

Reading the Bible alone leaves me feeling convicted against the green tree decked with silver and gold without ever reading from non-biblical resources. There are just to many references to idolatry that parallels this particular Christmas ritual. This "conviction" is my conviction, but it is Biblically based.

[Mountain Dew]

*grin*

Romans 14:14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

[Melody]

*edited when seen your next post.

YES!  I love that scripture for these subjects and EXACTLY where I'm coming from.

I can see where your coming from and if I worshipped the tree at all, I could see it's validity *for me.* It is equal to me as lillies at Easter, fresh flowers in a vase, harvest foods and pumpkins at Thanksgiving.  I think the tree is given far too much weight like many things.

Oh and my pastor taught on something once, I need to go look it up.  It was the dictation of where the priests' robes were to cover.  From the shoulders to the knees. I appreciate that example, I don't toe the line mind you but I am glad for a bit more than just the modesty and gender scriptures.  Gives it a bit more credence for me that I don't have to over compensate for what may be percieved as God's lack of specification. 

I do appreciate those scriptures you listed.  I think some do get carried away and those scriptures help us have clarity.    And all convictions need to have some Biblical support.  All of them I believe can be covered under the precious book of Galations and 1 Cor.6 & 10.  I'm not sure there is such thing as too much sacrifice if we are balanced in our entire relationship with Jesus. I was being a little onrey cause I totally respect people's convicitions on trees. Nathan (dh) didn't grow up with trees but has no conviction whatsoever about them.  And I also have a faceless nativity!  To me it's the same as so many churches having a cross, which my church does not. ☺  It's interesting to me the various different perceptions and yet I really think we are on the same page.  To never even be in danger of making something more or equal to submission and love for God. I could tell you how I can't bring myself to even consider rap music, even by Apostolics, as something I'd listen to.  But that reflects more the connotation it's had in my upbringing than the style itself.

It is much like how will disapprove of interacial marriage based on the OT that says for Israel to not marry the heathen.  But the context is the heathen part not the skin color part. ☺  I see the scripture saying to not worship the tree or make it a sacrificial display unto what would be demonic "gods."  Not the tree itself.

Mt.Dew!  You made this into a real discussion!  I love it.  I love a good Bible discussion!

[Mountain Dew]

*curtsy*

[Mountain Dew]

Oh and my pastor taught on something once, I need to go look it up.  It was the dictation of where the priests' robes were to cover.  From the shoulders to the knees. I appreciate that example, I don't toe the line mind you but I am glad for a bit more than just the modesty and gender scriptures.  Gives it a bit more credence for me that I don't have to over compensate for what may be percieved as God's lack of specification. 

Cover those knobby knees sticking out from your short-robed skirt! *hides from Scott* ...*pleads.."Scott, it wasn't standards...it was just...it was just...uh...her bony joints were making me nauseated!"*

It is much like how will disapprove of interacial marriage based on the OT that says for Israel to not marry the heathen.  But the context is the heathen part not the skin color part.   I see the scripture saying to not worship the tree or make it a sacrificial display unto what would be demonic "gods."  Not the tree itself.

Mt.Dew!  You made this into a real discussion!  I love it.  I love a good Bible discussion!

Sorry,  tree cut down, stood up in home, ornaments hung on it, gifts placed beneath....still bothers me...though beautiful.

[Mountain Dew]

NOTE: this has become thread "Kneely Trees". 

[Lynx]

Nah... "Knobby knees and standing trees." 

[Roscoe]

Oh and my pastor taught on something once, I need to go look it up.  It was the dictation of where the priests' robes were to cover.  From the shoulders to the knees. I appreciate that example, I don't toe the line mind you but I am glad for a bit more than just the modesty and gender scriptures.  Gives it a bit more credence for me that I don't have to over compensate for what may be percieved as God's lack of specification. 

Cover those knobby knees sticking out from your short-robed skirt! *hides from Scott* ...*pleads.."Scott, it wasn't standards...it was just...it was just...uh...her bony joints were making me nauseated!"*

It is much like how will disapprove of interacial marriage based on the OT that says for Israel to not marry the heathen.  But the context is the heathen part not the skin color part.   I see the scripture saying to not worship the tree or make it a sacrificial display unto what would be demonic "gods."  Not the tree itself.

Mt.Dew!  You made this into a real discussion!  I love it.  I love a good Bible discussion!

Sorry,  tree cut down, stood up in home, ornaments hung on it, gifts placed beneath....still bothers me...though beautiful.

Dang, Dewy- you sure you weren't raised in the same church as me? Remind me to never debate you. You're handier at pulling scriptures than I am.

[Mountain Dew]

Nah... "Knobby knees and standing trees." 

Even better!!! 

[Melody]

nobody gets to see my knees. or my armpits. Though I appreciate the assumed knobbiness rather than the actual stuffed-like-a-sausage-link look.

[mini]

nobody gets to see my knees. or my armpits. Though I appreciate the assumed knobbiness rather than the actual stuffed-like-a-sausage-link look.

Well, if you would shave those pit's you wouldn't be so ashamed of them...



I personally bow to trees every year at Christmas...

I bow down, get a present, and give it to someone, then bow down, get another present, and pass it to someone...

[mini]

MtDewy...hurry up and post already.

[mini]

Boy, we are waiting like forever on you... *cough*