ARE AMERICANS READY FOR JUDGMENT?

[onli-one-jehovi]

David is back in the public eye....

Now he can sell some more books....

Yes he can.

Or, he can make them available for free viewing online.

America's Last Call:

http://worldchallenge.edgeboss.net/download/worldchallenge/books/americas_last_call.pdf   

God's Plan to Protect His People in the Coming Depression:

http://worldchallenge.edgeboss.net/download/worldchallenge/books/gods_plan_to_protect_his_people.pdf


It's a lot easier to mock someone than it is to prayerfully consider the truth of their message.

I'm disappointed in you. As the "head" of this forum, you've just affirmed & authorized everyone here to do the same. I guess that Ishmael spirit is alive and kicking. 

[Jallen]

What is it you're so worked up about onli-one-jehovi? Boil it down for me if you will, because I'm not reading 6 pages of rantings to get at your points.... I don't know you well enough to believe what you have to say is worth the effort.

[Jallen]

It is troubling.  My hope is that if Americans will not turn back to God now, then perhaps the coming of judgment will cause us to turn back to Him.  God's judgment often has that effect on a people.

The idea that America was ever a "Godly" nation is a myth; it's nostalgia for a time that never was (the same thing happened in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire). It's true that various Christian philosophies have lost ground to other foreign (mostly Eastern) philosophies in America, but aside from that there's nothing to turn back to. Don't forget, when this country was at it's "Godliest" they burned those who preached baptism in Jesus' Name at the stake. If you're talking about the 1800's and early 1900's, yes the country held (as a general rule) a higher moral standard, but so did the rest of the civilized world. After all, American's have aped the fashions of Europe since the country's inception.

I was just pondering on all of this yesterday. You know, there might not be as many Americans in the Rapture as we assume there will be. Most of the true saints are probably in other countries by now.

[Scott]

David is back in the public eye....

Now he can sell some more books....

Yes he can.

Or, he can make them available for free viewing online.

America's Last Call:

http://worldchallenge.edgeboss.net/download/worldchallenge/books/americas_last_call.pdf   

God's Plan to Protect His People in the Coming Depression:

http://worldchallenge.edgeboss.net/download/worldchallenge/books/gods_plan_to_protect_his_people.pdf


It's a lot easier to mock someone than it is to prayerfully consider the truth of their message.

I'm disappointed in you. As the "head" of this forum, you've just affirmed & authorized everyone here to do the same. I guess that Ishmael spirit is alive and kicking. 

Mock?

Moi?

Of course, I do by the way consider the good David Wilkerson to be a false prophet, so I will mock him.

JMHO

[onli-one-jehovi]

What is it you're so worked up about onli-one-jehovi? Boil it down for me if you will, because I'm not reading 6 pages of rantings to get at your points.... I don't know you well enough to believe what you have to say is worth the effort.

What am I so worked up about? Boil it down for you? Ok. In a nutshell: Judgment is here & we are not ready.

And if it's rantings you do not desire to peruse, then you might as well stay away from all forums. Every topic is full of them. Some of it isn't worth it. Most of it is. 

However, you can't know anyone well enough by reading one or two posts. If you're interested, you have to put forth the effort.



I was just pondering on all of this yesterday. You know, there might not be as many Americans in the Rapture as we assume there will be. Most of the true saints are probably in other countries by now.


That's probably true. Thus, judgment upon this country will hopefully bring repentance to many. We need to be ready to manifest Jesus Christ to them in the midst of our calamities. Food, clothing, and shelter; as well as the comfort/grace of the Word of God. We need to be ready.

[onli-one-jehovi]

David is back in the public eye....

Now he can sell some more books....

Yes he can.

Or, he can make them available for free viewing online.

America's Last Call:

http://worldchallenge.edgeboss.net/download/worldchallenge/books/americas_last_call.pdf   

God's Plan to Protect His People in the Coming Depression:

http://worldchallenge.edgeboss.net/download/worldchallenge/books/gods_plan_to_protect_his_people.pdf


It's a lot easier to mock someone than it is to prayerfully consider the truth of their message.

I'm disappointed in you. As the "head" of this forum, you've just affirmed & authorized everyone here to do the same. I guess that Ishmael spirit is alive and kicking. 

Mock?

Moi?

Of course, I do by the way consider the good David Wilkerson to be a false prophet, so I will mock him.

JMHO

And you're entitled to it.

I, of course, hold that all the preachers and saints who blithely contend that:

"All is well. All is as it was before. This is just a cycle of _________. We'll be ok. There is still lots of time. Someday Jesus will come."

are deceived by lying spirits. Such have tickling ears and hear only what satisfies them, having not a love for the truth. This is the bulk of the Church.

I was reminded of Isaiah, who said:

8.Now go, write  it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time  to come for ever and ever  {the latter day}: 9.That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10.Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: 11.Get you out  of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. 12.Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression {fraud} and perverseness, and stay thereon: 13.Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant. 14.And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters'  vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

(Isa 30:8-14)


Time will tell. It always does.

[Scott]

I find that we as a church will not grow, nor see souls saved and kept if we continue to bombard them with doom and gloom scenarios.  In the mid to late 1980's several ministers went through the UPCI and ALJC with doom and gloom preaching, full of conspiracies and prophecies of eminent disaster, danger, the mark of the beast, Gog and Magog and all sorts of scary scenarios.  Souls were saved and churches were filled, we shouted and danced and proclaimed GREAT revival.

Within 5 years most of those saved through doom and gloom were gone! 

Why? That type of ''ministry'' fosters fear and God has not given us the Spirit of Fear!

When will the Lord return?  I don't know and I refuse to get involved in any predictions about his returning because no man knoweth the day nor the hour.

Could he come today? 

Yup!

Could he come before I click on the post button?

Yup!

Could my children's children be having this same discussion in the year 2059?

Yup!

But to try and predict and convince people that NOW is the time - that borders on false prophet behavior.

I've read many of Wilkerson's materials over the years, read some of his earlier prophecies and frankly they did not come true!

So do I take his warning as true words from the Lord?

Nope!

Why?

He denies the oneness of God

He denies the New Testament baptism for the Nicean Formula; thus alligning himself with the Roman Catholic Church in Baptism - the same RCC that he loves to take to task.

[onli-one-jehovi]

I understand what you're saying. I even agree - to a point. Promoting fear never lasts. But if fear comes, it comes to those unsure and unprepared for the flood. Quite frankly, a good dose of fear can do wonders in bringing our flesh under subjection. Sinners in the hand of an angry God. Warning of calamity brings repentance to the sincere. Ninevah comes to mind.

God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of a sound mind. That sound mind is the mind of Christ. Right now, the klaxon call is sounding; blaring out its warning. The sound mind of Christ understands that redemption draws nigh. The sound mind recognizes the glory that is to come, and the inummerable host redeemed out of this great tribulation; to the glory of the Lamb.

I remember the 80's. In retrospect, I believe God was giving us a time of repentance; just as He did Ninevah. The book of Amos speaks of the mercy of God in delaying His judgment twice. America hasn't repented. This time is different. This is the 3rd day of Christ and the 7th day of Adam. It will happen.... this time.

People do not stay because of their ground, not because of the net. It is with the heart that man believes and is saved, not with the mind. The same statistics hold true for those who come to God via addictions or depression or loneliness. Unless the heart is fallowed into good ground, the seed is choked out. Fear is not the only cause.

True, no man knows the exact day or hour.... yet. Both Daniel and Revelation tell us the exact amount of time between point A and point B. Thus, if you find out when A begins (began), then B comes Xdays after that. Jesus repeatedly told us He would come on the 3rd Day - {just as God told us the ending is the 7th Day} - and gave warning signs for that time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the conglomeration of all signs since 2001.

Has it brought fear? A certain amount. But it really brings a resolve and hope. Joyfullness and sorrow. For the kingdoms of this world are being brought down by the mountain made w/o hands. The earth is being prepared for the physical coming of the Kingdom of God. All things are being shaken that the things which cannot be shaken may remain. Part of me hates to see the future I'd planned for myself to disappear, yet there is a joy in knowing what I've hoped for over the last 45yrs is coming to pass.

He cannot come today for the fullness of time has not occurred. He cannot come until the end of the tribulation, which is at the early stages. Any discussion in 2059 will be past tense within the Kingdom. Scripturally, physically, and spiritually - this is it.

How can recognizing the times revealed in the Word border false prophet behavior? Daniel told the exact date and time that Messiah would appear, centuries before it happened. All the people had to do was read the book. Yet only a handful believed and recognized Him. Simeon and Anna knew the scriptures and were looking for Him. They knew the time and the season, but not the day. Why do you think they hung around the Temple where the newborns would come for circumcision? The very priesthood assigned with the responsibility to watch and declare His coming were nowhere to be found. Why? Because they did not really believe scripture; nor did they really believe the Spirit. That's why Simeon and Anna were foolish, and Jesus, John the Baptist, the Disciples, and all the Church were false prophets to be mocked, disbelieved, and silenced.

I've read some of Jesus' prophecies and frankly many of them have not come true. Do we chuck them out due to the expiration date? Three thousand years is a long time. Surely, if He was speaking the truth they would have been fulfilled by now.

No one prophet or saint has the whole picture. We are told in scripture to judge the prophecy against the Word and the Holy Spirit of Truth to discern whether it be of God. And that's what I ask everyone who reads this - but you admittedly mocked it. You acted carnally based upon I don't know what. Denomination - I guess.

Wait, there it is..... "He denies the oneness of God. He denies the New Testament baptism for the Nicean Formula; thus alligning himself with the Roman Catholic Church in Baptism - the same RCC that he loves to take to task."

Do you know he believes in more than one God? Do you know he is false? What does the Bible say?

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Chirst is born of God: For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. {I John 2, 4, 5 }

I've read his books and heard him speak. He's a brother. The Spirit bears witness.


Do you still pay a mandatory 10% tithe established by the Nicean RCC? Do you still partake of the fear inspired curse if you don't pay?

Does denying scripture in this area abort you out of the Body of Christ?  Does it make your entire witness false?

Has everything in the Book been revealed to you? Do you still operate in darkened understanding? Are you disqualified for doing so?


Of course not! Just because someone is not of _________ denomination does not mean they are lost. If anyone still believes that.... well, if you make it... you're in for a big surprise!


If all anyone continues to see is fear. If all anyone continues to see is hype. If all anyone continues to see is disbelief. Then that person is still asleep and will not have enough oil. Believe or disbelieve. Prepare or procrastinate. That's up to each individual. Hurricane Katrina was visibly on the radar, headed straight for New Orleans for four days. In spite of that, thousands still did not believe. All I am saying is:

WARNING! CALAMITIES ON THE RADAR HEADED FOR AMERICA! PREPARE YOURSELF!

Pray about it. Do an internet search. Read the book. Read the world. Add 2 + 2.

Do with it as you will.

[onli-one-jehovi]

It is troubling.  My hope is that if Americans will not turn back to God now, then perhaps the coming of judgment will cause us to turn back to Him.  God's judgment often has that effect on a people.

The idea that America was ever a "Godly" nation is a myth; it's nostalgia for a time that never was (the same thing happened in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire). It's true that various Christian philosophies have lost ground to other foreign (mostly Eastern) philosophies in America, but aside from that there's nothing to turn back to. Don't forget, when this country was at it's "Godliest" they burned those who preached baptism in Jesus' Name at the stake. If you're talking about the 1800's and early 1900's, yes the country held (as a general rule) a higher moral standard, but so did the rest of the civilized world. After all, American's have aped the fashions of Europe since the country's inception.

I wasn't going to say anything because you weren't talking to me. However, I came across this short sermon synopsis today and it has information relating to such a foolishly ignorant jab at American History. While the overall theme relates to our continuing pending judgment; there are also historical links provided.


THE WATCHMEN, 911, AND THE HARBINGERS

www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/09_Global/090316.watchman.911.pdf


Folks, there are just too many true saints of God warning this country. When woven into the fabric of the obvious signs, only a fool would continue to listen to their pulpit scoffing at the fulfillment of prophetic Word. Take it to the Lord yourself. Hear what the Spirit is saying. God will talk to you. God will open eyes. God will reveal your place to be in this hour. That's what's important. Come out of Babylon and hear the true Word of the Lord.

Regardless of what others here might say or believe.... this is the time to prepare for tribulation such as the world has never seen. Especially here in America. It's coming. It's already at the door. Stir yourselves from slumber and pray. Go into the closet and enter into the most holy place. Take your place in the Body to best succor the survivors. This nation will need both physical, emotional, and spiritual comfort. This is the time for the Church to shine with the glory of the Lord. Brace yourselves and prepare. You are needed in the coming hours.

[Scott]

I understand what you're saying. I even agree - to a point. Promoting fear never lasts. But if fear comes, it comes to those unsure and unprepared for the flood. Quite frankly, a good dose of fear can do wonders in bringing our flesh under subjection.

Remember God hath not given us the spirit of fear...... so why use that spirit to promote the kingdom?

Sinners in the hand of an angry God. Warning of calamity brings repentance to the sincere. Ninevah comes to mind.

Sure, in a paganistic culture - a prophet shows up covered in whale puke, it got their attention. Today they shoot him full of thorzin and lock him up.

God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of a sound mind. That sound mind is the mind of Christ. Right now, the klaxon call is sounding; blaring out its warning. The sound mind of Christ understands that redemption draws nigh. The sound mind recognizes the glory that is to come, and the inummerable host redeemed out of this great tribulation; to the glory of the Lamb.

However, when fear dominates - there is no room for the sound mind.

I remember the 80's. In retrospect, I believe God was giving us a time of repentance; just as He did Ninevah. The book of Amos speaks of the mercy of God in delaying His judgment twice. America hasn't repented. This time is different. This is the 3rd day of Christ and the 7th day of Adam. It will happen.... this time.

Just as he did Ninevah?

Are you sure of that?

''Just as he did Ninevah?''

Why are Americans so arrogant that they assume that God is looking to punish them in particular?

Especially a nation that has taken it upon itself to propagate the gospel world wide?

People do not stay because of their ground, not because of the net. It is with the heart that man believes and is saved, not with the mind. The same statistics hold true for those who come to God via addictions or depression or loneliness. Unless the heart is fallowed into good ground, the seed is choked out. Fear is not the only cause.

People do not stay because they came in for the wrong reasons..... when the fear goes away, they become complacent

True, no man knows the exact day or hour.... yet. Both Daniel and Revelation tell us the exact amount of time between point A and point B. Thus, if you find out when A begins (began), then B comes Xdays after that. Jesus repeatedly told us He would come on the 3rd Day - {just as God told us the ending is the 7th Day} - and gave warning signs for that time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the conglomeration of all signs since 2001.

A very subjective time frame.

Has it brought fear? A certain amount. But it really brings a resolve and hope. Joyfullness and sorrow. For the kingdoms of this world are being brought down by the mountain made w/o hands. The earth is being prepared for the physical coming of the Kingdom of God. All things are being shaken that the things which cannot be shaken may remain. Part of me hates to see the future I'd planned for myself to disappear, yet there is a joy in knowing what I've hoped for over the last 45yrs is coming to pass.

Bringing fear? God hath not given us the spirt of FEAR!  Cannot use Fear it it is not given of God!

He cannot come today for the fullness of time has not occurred. He cannot come until the end of the tribulation, which is at the early stages. Any discussion in 2059 will be past tense within the Kingdom. Scripturally, physically, and spiritually - this is it.

Disagree!

How can recognizing the times revealed in the Word border false prophet behavior?

Not what I said: I have seen Wilkerson / Robertson / Falwell et all -> spew fort ''thus sayeth the Lord...'' many times in the past and nothing passeth.

Daniel told the exact date and time that Messiah would appear, centuries before it happened. All the people had to do was read the book.

I read Daniel, no exact date.


An exact date is Jun 05, 1926  or  the 4th day of the 7th month  1 B.C. or the 14 th of the 5th year of the reigh of King (-----)

. Why do you think they hung around the Temple where the newborns would come for circumcision?

Ya gotta be some where...

I've read some of Jesus' prophecies and frankly many of them have not come true. Do we chuck them out due to the expiration date? Three thousand years is a long time. Surely, if He was speaking the truth they would have been fulfilled by now.

So you are saying that the word of David Wilkerson = Jesus Christ?

No one prophet or saint has the whole picture. We are told in scripture to judge the prophecy against the Word and the Holy Spirit of Truth to discern whether it be of God. And that's what I ask everyone who reads this - but you admittedly mocked it. You acted carnally based upon I don't know what. Denomination - I guess.

Oh, mock or disagree with you = carnal?

Bro: With college, law school and 25 plus years in the ministry, I promise you that I have been disagreed with  many a number of people, it does not make them carnal, we each have our own opinions and our own views.

The future is a glass darkly, God did not mean for us to devine perfectly and exactly what will happen in the end times.  We are told to be ready and wating. 

Marvin Treece / Arlo Molenpaugh / Nate Haney / Ed Lucas / Irvin Baxter / S G Norris: all good men of GOD, each with a different take on the end times.  Which one is carnal? Which one is not?

Our salvation is not based on prophecy, but Repentence / baptism / infilling.

Wait, there it is..... "He denies the oneness of God. He denies the New Testament baptism for the Nicean Formula; thus alligning himself with the Roman Catholic Church in Baptism - the same RCC that he loves to take to task."

Do you know he believes in more than one God? Do you know he is false? What does the Bible say?

I know what the  bible says, I also know what he preaches and teaches.

I've read his books and heard him speak. He's a brother. The Spirit bears witness.

I've read his books and he teaches another doctrine, not a bother and bearing a witness of not of God.

Do you still pay a mandatory 10% tithe established by the Nicean RCC? Do you still partake of the fear inspired curse if you don't pay?

Ah, one of those........

Of course not! Just because someone is not of _________ denomination does not mean they are lost. If anyone still believes that.... well, if you make it... you're in for a big surprise!

Who said denomination?

. All I am saying is:

WARNING! CALAMITIES ON THE RADAR HEADED FOR AMERICA! PREPARE YOURSELF!

Pray about it. Do an internet search. Read the book. Read the world. Add 2 + 2.

Do with it as you will.

One thing that you need to understand and you need to get:

Not everyone is going to agree with you, not everyone is going to accept what you say as Gospel truth. 

That will not make them sinners, carnal or hellbound.

I read the bible, I teach bible prophecy, I study it and guess what... I don't see what you see and you don't see what I see.

[onli-one-jehovi]

Legend: blue = onli quote      bold black = scott quote    normal black = onli reply


I understand what you're saying. I even agree - to a point. Promoting fear never lasts. But if fear comes, it comes to those unsure and unprepared for the flood. Quite frankly, a good dose of fear can do wonders in bringing our flesh under subjection.

Remember God hath not given us the spirit of fear...... so why use that spirit to promote the kingdom?

Why preach of eternal hellfire and damnation? Can that not incite fear? Like I said: "if fear comes, it comes to those unsure and unprepared for the flood {judgment}."

{continued}


Sinners in the hand of an angry God. Warning of calamity brings repentance to the sincere. Ninevah comes to mind.

Sure, in a paganistic culture - a prophet shows up covered in whale puke, it got their attention. Today they shoot him full of thorzin and lock him up.

So, "godly America" has no need of repentance? Is our culture so holy?  Aren't you trying to do the same thing on a verbal level?
 
God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of a sound mind. That sound mind is the mind of Christ. Right now, the klaxon call is sounding; blaring out its warning. The sound mind of Christ understands that redemption draws nigh. The sound mind recognizes the glory that is to come, and the innumerable host redeemed out of this great tribulation; to the glory of the Lamb.

However, when fear dominates - there is no room for the sound mind.

This is why Jesus repeatedly tells us "Fear not!" His Body is supposed to put on the mind of Christ and not use their natural one for discernment. Romans says to be not conformed to this world but be transformed byt the renewing of your mind that you might prove what is the good, perfect, and acceptable will of God. Fear should never dominate a saint of Jesus Christ.

I remember the 80's. In retrospect, I believe God was giving us a time of repentance; just as He did Nineveh. The book of Amos speaks of the mercy of God in delaying His judgment twice. America hasn't repented. This time is different. This is the 3rd day of Christ and the 7th day of Adam. It will happen.... this time.

Just as he did Nineveh?    Are you sure of that?    ''Just as he did Ninevah?''

Yes. Just as He did Nineveh. Jonah was told by the Lord Himself, that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days. The nation repented and it was 150 yrs later that Jonah's prophecy came to pass. I believe America was shown mercy in the 80's and the time extended until now. Though it wasn't the entire nation that repented, it was possibly (and probably) the Church who cried out for mercy.

Why are Americans so arrogant that they assume that God is looking to punish them in particular?  Especially a nation that has taken it upon itself to propagate the gospel world wide?

The topic title is: Are Americans Ready For Judgment? That's what we're focusing on – this particular country, America.

The arrogance comes from us being founded upon Biblical values and willingly submitting to the Creator. We have rightly proclaimed ourselves a Christian Nation and are known as such all over the world. We've sinned and know it. The fact we have propagated the gospel to the world – along with every other sin under the sun – simply intensifies the issue. Deep down, we know we're deserving of judgment, but don't want to admit a need to repent. Like Samson, we shake ourselves as before, not knowing the presence of God has lifted.

[onli-one-jehovi]

People do not stay because of their ground, not because of the net. It is with the heart that man believes and is saved, not with the mind. The same statistics hold true for those who come to God via addictions or depression or loneliness. Unless the heart is fallowed into good ground, the seed is choked out. Fear is not the only cause.

People do not stay because they came in for the wrong reasons..... when the fear goes away, they become complacent

Not necessarily. Jesus said the seed falls on 4 types of ground and only 1 of those reproduces itself. He also said that love grows cold. Paul says they fall away and believe a lie because they did not love truth. I don't recollect anywhere in scripture that mentions falling away because they came to Jesus for the wrong reasons. They might leave a congregation when the fear rubs off, but such are bad ground and the Word has no lasting effect.   


True, no man knows the exact day or hour.... yet. Both Daniel and Revelation tell us the exact amount of time between point A and point B. Thus, if you find out when A begins (began), then B comes Xdays after that. Jesus repeatedly told us He would come on the 3rd Day - {just as God told us the ending is the 7th Day} - and gave warning signs for that time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the conglomeration of all signs since 2001.


A very subjective time frame.

Of what good is a warning that has no basis of time frame? How can you have a last day in an infinite number of days? That's impossible. There has to be a finite number; a beginning and end, otherwise watching for signs is irrelevant. Read the gospels again. Repeatedly Jesus tells us when these things will be and what to look for – at the last day. Read Genesis creation story. God set the template of 7 days. According to Paul, the OT is a physical type of spiritual truth. According to the repeated patterns of scripture, there are only 7 days/7000 yrs and then eternity. Be a Berean and search it out.


Has it brought fear? A certain amount. But it really brings a resolve and hope. Joyfullness and sorrow. For the kingdoms of this world are being brought down by the mountain made w/o hands. The earth is being prepared for the physical coming of the Kingdom of God. All things are being shaken that the things which cannot be shaken may remain. Part of me hates to see the future I'd planned for myself to disappear, yet there is a joy in knowing what I've hoped for over the last 45yrs is coming to pass.

Bringing fear? God hath not given us the spirt of FEAR!  Cannot use Fear it it is not given of God!

Do you honestly mean to tell me that you personally have never once felt fear over the things happening? Not even a twinge? When 911 occurred? Or when the stock market dropped & pensions were affected? Or when some banks shut down? Or when lay-offs circulated thru companies? None of those events sparked even a momentary fear in the flesh?  I find that hard to believe.
Besides, there needs to be a holy fear of the Lord among His people. It is the world whose hearts are failing them for fear of the things coming upon the earth. His people are to have a sound mind.


He cannot come today for the fullness of time has not occurred. He cannot come until the end of the tribulation, which is at the early stages. Any discussion in 2059 will be past tense within the Kingdom. Scripturally, physically, and spiritually - this is it.


Disagree!

Acts 3:20,21 – And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets since the world began.

Mt 24:29-31 – Immediately after the tribulation of those days.... shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another.

I Thes 4:16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump(et) of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

John 6:39,40,44,54: And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 – Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.  

There is absolutely no scriptural backing for the imminent return of Jesus Christ. Jesus himself repeatedly said it would be the last day when he returned from heaven; not at any unknown, unlooked for instantaneous moment over the last 2000 years. It is this error which has caused so much of the Church to not seriously look at all; much less be able to comprehend the true signs of the time. Disagree all you want. The Book says different.


{continued}

[onli-one-jehovi]

How can recognizing the times revealed in the Word border false prophet behavior?

Not what I said: I have seen Wilkerson / Robertson / Falwell et all -> spew fort ''thus sayeth the Lord...'' many times in the past and nothing passeth.

Let's see what you said: "But to try and predict and convince people that NOW is the time - that borders on false prophet behavior."

I gather this means anyone trying to sound the cry of the Bridegroom's coming NOW, rather than SOMEDAY - exhibits false prophet behavior. From your standpoint, that definitely means me.

You also said: "I've read many of Wilkerson's materials over the years, read some of his earlier prophecies and frankly they did not come true!"

I haven't read but a couple of Wilkerson's books, over the years. Frankly, at the time, their content was beyond my then level of understanding. I only studied what my denomination taught w/o seeking the Book. I no longer do that. Now I prove and disprove via the Bible. That changes everything. As far as Robertson and Falwell go..... we're not talking about them. They don't count in this discussion. At least, not yet.

Besides, I've heard many in the pulpit say: Thus sayeth the Lord!, and he never did either. I know little about any past prophecies other than the destruction coming to America. He wrote about that in the 80's, I believe. Again, just because it hasn't happened yet, does not mean it won't.


Daniel told the exact date and time that Messiah would appear, centuries before it happened. All the people had to do was read the book.

I read Daniel, no exact date.  An exact date is Jun 05, 1926  or  the 4th day of the 7th month  1 B.C. or the 14th of the 5th year of the reign of King (-----)

Daniel 9:25 - Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

If anyone really wanted to know the year this would happen, all that's needed is the date the command went forth. According to the Word of the Lord, four hundred and eighty three years later - Messiah would be revealed to Israel. King Artaxerxes issued this commandment in 445 B.C. 173,880 days later {32 A.D.} - Jesus presented himself as Messiah Prince by riding into Jerusalem on a donkey. Sounds pretty exact to me.


Why do you think they hung around the Temple where the newborns would come for circumcision?

Ya gotta be some where...

Luke 2: And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And the angel said... for unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon...and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And he came by the Spirit into the temple:... and there was one Anna, a prophetess which departed not from the temple... and she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord. 

Besides the Holy Ghost leading them to the temple at that precise moment; it is highly likely that the tale of the shepherds had reached even their ears. Again, being familiar with Daniel, it wouldn't be any stretch to look for him. Especially when Isaiah said a sign would be a virgin conceiving a son who was to be King over all Israel. They simply knew & recognized the seasons and the signs - just like we're to do.


I've read some of Jesus' prophecies and frankly many of them have not come true. Do we chuck them out due to the expiration date? Three thousand years is a long time. Surely, if He was speaking the truth they would have been fulfilled by now.

So you are saying that the word of David Wilkerson = Jesus Christ?

No. I'm saying that just because a prophecy being __X_ yrs old has not yet come to pass, does not invalidate the prophet or the prophecy.



No one prophet or saint has the whole picture. We are told in scripture to judge the prophecy against the Word and the Holy Spirit of Truth to discern whether it be of God. And that's what I ask everyone who reads this - but you admittedly mocked it. You acted carnally based upon I don't know what. Denomination - I guess.

Oh, mock or disagree with you = carnal?  Bro: With college, law school and 25 plus years in the ministry, I promise you that I have been disagreed with  many a number of people, it does not make them carnal, we each have our own opinions and our own views.

Not at all. I've repeatedly stated that all warnings, prophecies, etc need to be prayerfully considered and spiritually discerned against the Word of God. Your comments and attitude plainly show you have not done that. Disagree & mock me all you want. Just don't hide behind a prideful spiritual mask after making a carnal decision based on a pre-supposition. Balaam prophesied the truth in spite of himself. We are to try the spirit of the message, not pre-judge the messenger.

Our opinions and views do not matter when they conflict with Scripture. Your comments have been based upon tradition and denominal doctrine, and not scripture. We are one body, with one mind, and one truth: Jesus of Nazareth, the Word of God. There's more to the Body of Christ than any single denomination.  Art thou a master of scripture and know not these things? {John 3:10 implied}


The future is a glass darkly, God did not mean for us to divine perfectly and exactly what will happen in the end times.  We are told to be ready and waiting.

Really? Then why did he recite parable after parable after parable about his coming and the signs of the end of the age? Why did he command us to watch and pray that we be counted worthy to escape the punishment of sinners? Why did he tell us in Hosea that we would be forsaken 2 days, but brought to him the third? Why did he tell us his body would be buried for 2 days but rise the third? Why did he tell us the signs of his coming, when our redemption would draw nigh? Why did he seal Daniel's book until the end? Why would he tell Daniel that the wicked {to do or declare wrong} shall not understand? Why would he tell Daniel the wise would understand? Why did he admonish us to be wise and not foolish?
How can we be ready and waiting for an unknown day in infinity? How can we be ready if he just shows up out of the blue? If I knew you were coming Jesus, I'd have been ready. I thought you were coming tomorrow. Why didn't you let me know? 

Is that the scenario you want to live by? He's not that way. He said I have no secrets from you. The Holy Ghost will reveal even what is to come. {John 16:13} The cry went out: Behold the Bridegroom cometh! Go ye out to meet him. God very much wants us to know when he comes.


Marvin Treece / Arlo Molenpaugh / Nate Haney / Ed Lucas / Irvin Baxter / S G Norris: all good men of GOD, each with a different take on the end times.  Which one is carnal? Which one is not?

The one who teaches tradition and denominal doctrine that does not align with the scriptures is the carnal one.

To have a varied understanding of end times is simply looking thru a glass darkly. It is prophesying in part - part Spirit of God and spirit of man. All anyone can witness of is what they currently know. But each of us has to be open to the discerning of the Spirit, even if it means abandoning our religious concepts. To not do so, is to act carnally in rebellion against God. No matter whom you are.

Our salvation is not based on prophecy, but Repentence / baptism / infilling.

That's never been an issue. However, scripture says the sum of thy word is truth; and don't go beyond what is written. If we neglect rightly dividing the word by adding our opinions and viewpoints; we run the risk of being one of those whom the Lord told to depart, for they had worked iniquity. He said that to saved people; not to the lost. He will spew those same out of his mouth. It is important to come to an understanding of the end-time prophecies. Our salvation can depend upon it.

{continued}

[onli-one-jehovi]

Wait, there it is..... "He denies the oneness of God. He denies the New Testament baptism for the Nicean Formula; thus alligning himself with the Roman Catholic Church in Baptism - the same RCC that he loves to take to task."

Do you know he believes in more than one God? Do you know he is false? What does the Bible say?

I know what the bible says; I also know what he preaches and teaches. 

I'm not sure you do. I think you can't - or won't - get past a self-applied label. The Bible says to judge no man by the flesh. Try the spirits to see if they are from God.

I've read his books and heard him speak. He's a brother. The Spirit bears witness.

I've read his books and he teaches another doctrine, not a brother and bearing a witness of not of God.

Really? Don't you mean: not my denominal doctrine? Jesus said anyone who does the will of God is his brother. {Mk 4} Jesus said the Father's will is that everyone that believes on the Son have everlasting life. {Jn 6} If Jesus calls him brother, then who are we - his body - to do less.


Do you still pay a mandatory 10% tithe established by the Nicean RCC? Do you still partake of the fear inspired curse if you don't pay?

Ah, one of those........

If by that, you mean: one who has actually taken the time and effort to search out every scripture reference in both the Old & New Testaments to see for myself.....

Then yeah, I am one of those.

If by that, you mean: one who hasn't actually taken the time and effort to search out every scripture reference in both the Old & New Testaments, but instead swallowed hook, line, and sinker the doctrine begun by the RCC several hundred years after Christ & the Apostles.....

Then no, I am not one of those.

According to the scriptures: tithing was an ordinance of Moses Law, commanded upon the farmers & ranchers only, in order to feed the Levite Priesthood. This is found strictly in the OT.

The NT introduced a new priesthood and abolished the old; nailing it to the cross of Calvary. {Eph 2:15, Col 2:14, Heb 7:12} We are to give cheerfully as the Spirit leads. There is no mandatory tithe for the Saints of Jesus Christ. Not one verse in the NT supports this. According to the Encyclopedia, it was Charlemagne who imposed tithing 700 yrs after Christ; the same RCC who distorted the godhead. Best to get the beam out of your own eye, and get the facts straight.


Of course not! Just because someone is not of _________ denomination does not mean they are lost. If anyone still believes that.... well, if you make it... you're in for a big surprise! 

Who said denomination?

You did via implication....  "He denies the oneness of God. He denies the New Testament baptism for the Nicean Formula; thus aligning himself with the Roman Catholic Church in Baptism - the same RCC that he loves to take to task."

This entire discourse hasn't been about the content of the warnings, or their scriptural integrity. It hasn't been about what the Lord may be trying to tell us, or how fitly this corresponds to what the worldly experts are saying. This entire discourse has been about David Wilkerson's denominal stance. This entire discourse has been - again - turned into a oneness/trinity vendetta.

Is anyone other than me, astounded at this? All a self-confessed college graduate, lawyer, and 25 yr preacher can say is: He's not oneness and baptizes Trinitarian!

I'm stunned!


All I am saying is: WARNING! CALAMITIES ON THE RADAR HEADED FOR AMERICA! PREPARE YOURSELF!

Pray about it. Do an internet search. Read the book. Read the world. Add 2 + 2.

Do with it as you will.


One thing that you need to understand and you need to get:

Not everyone is going to agree with you, not everyone is going to accept what you say as Gospel truth. 

That will not make them sinners, carnal or hellbound.


Oh, I get it. I do understand that. Not asking everyone to agree, nor blindly accept it as Gospel truth. All I ask is what I asked from the beginning. I ask what you apparently refused to do. I ask for consideration, prayer, checking veracity against the Word. I ask not to judge after the flesh, but after the Spirit. If we are led by the Spirit, we are the sons of God. Sons of God run everything thru the Spirit and the Word. If we do not do this, then we are being led by our carnal minds and become rebellious sinners, who will be Hell bound if we remain so.


I read the bible, I teach bible prophecy, I study it and guess what... I don't see what you see and you don't see what I see.

I know that. I study every day and see things I didn't yesterday. I learn things from others that I didn't understand before. It's called assembling ourselves. No one person or one denomination has it all. It's foolish to believe otherwise. I used to see what you see, until I read the Book w/o a prior agenda. It's amazing what it really says.

Ever thought about why sheep are clean but pigs aren't? Both have a cloven, divided hoof. What's the difference?

Well, sheep chew the cud. They slowly ingest their food, bringing it back up over a period of time. They rightly divide the Word {cloven hoof} and meditate upon it {chew the cud} gaining strength and growth. Sheep have to be led to feed. Sheep only listen to - and recognize - the voice of their shepherd.

Pigs never chew the cud. Pigs swallow anything and everything given to them. They have divided the Word somewhat, but never meditate upon it. They dig around and uproot morsels, finding treasures along the way. But they just gulp it down and look for more; running back and forth to the trough. Pigs will follow anyone who calls, as long as they feed what pleases them.

When Jesus {truth} came, the people were angry because he killed their pigs.

I don't want to be a pig again. I want to be a sheep. I want to recognize what the Great Shepherd feeds me, and contemplate it over and over for the nutrients. I don't want to blindly accept the provisions of pig-tenders who get upset at anyone who challenges their livelihood. I want to be led of the Spirit that I not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I understand Scott. I understand all too well the battle between being a sheep and a pig. I understand it's easier for some to depend upon the pulpit rather than the Holy Spirit; to sit on past accomplishments and knowledge, manifesting little progression onward; and to limit ones' self to a small circle of Believers. I really do understand.

That's why this topic has been about warnings for the Body to prepare. It's been about chewing the cud of the Word in the field of current events. It's been about getting in order to follow the Shepherd to the safety of the sheepfold. It's been about reading the radar and seeing the storm coming to these shores. 

All I've ever said was to brace yourself. Prepare for the judgment soon to come. Those who want to - will. Those who do not - won't. It's not up to me.

Do with it as you will.

{finished}

[Scott]

Way too many words to respond to them all...

too tired to night and fighting a cat allergy (just left a church get together and they had cats....) aaaaahhhh chooooooooooo

[onli-one-jehovi]

Hope you feel better. The pollen around here is going wild!

[Scott]

The pollen can be nuts here...but I am so allergic to cats. I was at a friend house for 3 hours and the cat really got to.

Anyway.....

You got carried away typing I cannot respond to it all..... 


David Wilkerson: I read some of his writings on the Godhead and baptism - he is a ''titles'' baptizer. His work with drug addicts and gangs is amazing; however his Teen Challenge will not allow Apostolics to minister within their facilities.  They want you to sign a doctrinal statement of faith, agreeing to Matt 28:19.  We have one just 1 block from where I live and I cannot minister due to my Acts 2:38 beliefs.

'nuff said there

As for tithing: I pay my tithes, my minsters dues and offerings. Jesus has never failed me.

Prophecy teachings:  Once upon a time we had to ban prophecy discussions at UPCI.COM and UPCI.WS because of the various beliefs and disagreements. In fact the most disturbing, rude and threatening emails I have received were because that I do not believe Post Trib.


okay enough for 2-nite..

ciao

[Tsalagi]

Surely, if He was speaking the truth they would have been fulfilled by now.

AAAAAAAAmen!

[onli-one-jehovi]

The pollen can be nuts here...but I am so allergic to cats. I was at a friend house for 3 hours and the cat really got to.

Anyway.....

You got carried away typing I cannot respond to it all..... 

Ah... just answering. I am slow though. It took awhile. 


David Wilkerson: I read some of his writings on the Godhead and baptism - he is a ''titles'' baptizer. His work with drug addicts and gangs is amazing; however his Teen Challenge will not allow Apostolics to minister within their facilities.  They want you to sign a doctrinal statement of faith, agreeing to Matt 28:19.  We have one just 1 block from where I live and I cannot minister due to my Acts 2:38 beliefs.

'nuff said there

Sorry to hear that. It's a shame when religion gets in the way of brotherhood. On both sides of the door.

As for tithing: I pay my tithes, my minsters dues and offerings. Jesus has never failed me.

And He never will. I did notice though, the use of the word "pay". I'm not familiar with the scripture that says "pay" and it shall be "paid back" to you.

Prophecy teachings:  Once upon a time we had to ban prophecy discussions at UPCI.COM and UPCI.WS because of the various beliefs and disagreements. In fact the most disturbing, rude and threatening emails I have received were because that I do not believe Post Trib.

I would never send anyone a threatening, rude, or disturbing e-mail over a difference of understanding. I do not see such things as negating or preventing brotherhood, {And by that, I mean members of the Body of Christ.} anymore than misunderstanding other facets of scripture. What did Paul say?

Till we all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.  {Eph 4:13-15}

We're all in this together. John said if we hate our brother, we are in darkness and not light. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. {I John 1 & 2}

We disagree about things. But I know you are my brother. I disagree with Wilkerson about things. But I know he is my brother. Nothing can ever change that.

okay enough for 2-nite..

ciao

Get some rest - brother.  

[onli-one-jehovi]

Surely, if He was speaking the truth they would have been fulfilled by now.

AAAAAAAAmen!

Isa 66:22 - for as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make,......

Isa 66:23 - And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Isa 66:24 - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesht.

Isa 65:17-25 - new heavens & new earth; Jerusalem a rejoicing; the voice of weeping not heard; child shall die one hundred years old; build houses and inhabit them; wolf & lamb feed together.

Isa 61:2 - ...and the day of vengeance of our God

Jer 50 & 51 - destruction/conquering of Babylon by a great northern army, burning her as Sodom and Gomorrah.

Zech 12:9-10 - And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seed to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. ... and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced

Zech 14:4 - And his feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives...

Rev 19:20 - and the beast was taken, and whth him the false prophet... these both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10,12 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone... And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened... and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

I think that is enough to get the point across. 

[OGIA]

Since Wilkerson seems to be a trinitarian (I don't care what flavor or brand), I have to ask, Jerry: from which god did he get his warnings?

[onli-one-jehovi]

Since Wilkerson seems to be a trinitarian (I don't care what flavor or brand), I have to ask, Jerry: from which god did he get his warnings?

From the same one who sent John the Baptist.

[OGIA]

But which one of the one?   

[onli-one-jehovi]

But which one of the one?   

Why don't you check the scriptures and tell us?

[OGIA]

I only find one in the scriptures.  But this Wilkerson fella apparently believes that this one contains more than one.  So, the simple question is "which one of the one does he get his 'word' from"?  Would you mind checking with him?  I'm just curious is all.