Those Independent Women!

[Melody]

I don't believe that's an accurate assessment brother.  If anything it may force them to stay married because of love and working on the relationship rather than obligation.  Maybe the men who would have only stayed out of obligation with out reguard for the Mrs. and kids now has a choice and chooses NOT to be vulnerable and have a real relationship that not's based on being the king of the castle but partner instead?

I'm not saying that's even true, but we could come up with a lot of ways to blame females and males alike- equally.  So you have to pin point what happened first: Men being adulterous, abusers and abandoners, or simply dying for some reasong, leaving women to make it on their own, OR women being bent on surviving without a man.  Or another variable that I haven't thought of right now.....

[Sister_Mom]

On the other hand, if I had a husband, it would be different. I know that's sounds contradictive, because men like to feel needed, I guess we all do. But if I were to get involved in a relationship again, the first thing I would want understood would be that I don't have to have a man in order to survive. I just don't want a man to get the impression that if I'm interested it's because I can't make it in this world without him, but that if I'm with him it's because I choose to be, not because I have to be, and I'd want to know it's the same with him.

I've been wondering lately if this doesn't have something to do with the high number of divorces we see today. It's interesting to me that in a time when a woman couldn't make it without a man, people stayed married. Now, divorce is the norm. The feminist will tell you that all those women before were being abused, etc., etc. Undoubtedly some were, but I'm wondering if a man's conscience didn't keep alot of those marriages together... him knowing that the wife and kids would likely starve without him. Nowadays, a man doesn't have to 'worry' about that, and look at the mess we're in.

It used to be extremely difficult for a woman to earn a living. While women could go to college and gain knowledge and skills to earn a decent living, the job opportunities and pay wasn't readily available. While this was fine for married women who depended on their husband's income to support them, it made it difficult for single women (You have to remember, there have always been women who have chosen not to marry, never had the opportunity, had legitimate divorces, and widows that have had to support themselves.). I believe while this may have kept the divorce rate low, it was also a factor in women feeling pressured to marry and compromising on their choice of a mate and at the same time it was a factor in men taking their wives for granted. While most men's conscience and sense of responsibility may have held a lot of marriages together, there was the minority that didn't live up to their responsibilities. I do agree that when the women are dependent on their husbands and husbands have the desire to take care of and provide for their family that the divorce rate will be minimal.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing for a woman to be dependant on a man. I'm saying I believe in a better way. Instead of men feeling as though women can't make it in this world without them, they have a desire to take care of their family out of love and compassion and a sense of responsibility. Instead of women feeling the need to get married in order to survive, choosing a man that she loves and wants to share the rest of her life with. Having respect for each other can have an influence on our divorce rate also. I would have no problem depending on a man and being a "helpmeet" to him if I felt like I was there because he wants me to be there and because I want to be there.

[terp]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing for a woman to be dependant on a man. I'm saying I believe in a better way. Instead of men feeling as though women can't make it in this world without them, they have a desire to take care of their family out of love and compassion and a sense of responsibility. Instead of women feeling the need to get married in order to survive, choosing a man that she loves and wants to share the rest of her life with. Having respect for each other can have an influence on our divorce rate also. I would have no problem depending on a man and being a "helpmeet" to him if I felt like I was there because he wants me to be there and because I want to be there.

I like this. 

[Nelle]

I only read the first post. I don't have any problem accepting help. If they offered, I'm assuming they WANT to help, so I let them. We tip our carry-out-guys all the time. I don't know if they have policy against it, but I know the guys accept the $$.

I let them hold doors, chairs.. whatever! LOL.. I also do the same for them if they need it.

[Envelope]

welll, I'm married but I'l give my 2 cents anyway!!

I think it is EXTREMELY important for a woman to be able to take care of themselves!!  I know TONS of Apostolic girls that NEVER go to college and get married as soon as they're 18.  If something happens to the husband, these women have virtually NO skills to be able to take care of themselves, let alone the half dozen children they had!!

I got my nursing degree.  I got married at 29 and then CHOSE to stay home with my kids.  It is a reassuring feeling to know that if something happened to my husband tomorrow, that I COULD support my kids if I had to......(and myself of course...) and that I wouldn't be stuck working a $6 hour job......

I pray nothing happens to my husband-----I rather enjoy him taking care of us.....it's just good to know that I can do it if I had to.............

sharon

[RandyWayne]

Amen and amen!  (To Sharon's post)

[SippinTea]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing for a woman to be dependant on a man. I'm saying I believe in a better way. Instead of men feeling as though women can't make it in this world without them, they have a desire to take care of their family out of love and compassion and a sense of responsibility. Instead of women feeling the need to get married in order to survive, choosing a man that she loves and wants to share the rest of her life with. Having respect for each other can have an influence on our divorce rate also. I would have no problem depending on a man and being a "helpmeet" to him if I felt like I was there because he wants me to be there and because I want to be there.

I like this. 

I like it, too.

I pray nothing happens to my husband-----I rather enjoy him taking care of us.....it's just good to know that I can do it if I had to.............

Good point, Sharon, but there is a big difference between being able to do it if you have to...and being so independent that you try to do everything on your own. I've got a couple married friends that haven't made that switch very well.

And yes, I'm thankful to live in a culture/society where I can support myself. But that doesn't mean I want to. 

[Envelope]

sippintea........your post made me smile...........

When my husband and I announced our engagement, my sister went OFF the deep end.....Grant it...we are BOTH nurses and she was already married with a child.......

She was like......."What are you thinking?  How can you even think about staying home with kids?" etc etc etc.....

I seen the VAST difference in our choices.  She feels she HAS to work to prove something........I am the opposite.....

I rather like the term "helpmeet".......it is exactly what we should be!!!

sharon

[SippinTea]

Hurray for Sharon!! 

[Chinadoll]

Work and church and SCA Elona.   That's pretty much it but it keeps me busy!

Nai

[apsurf]

True independence aside from being able to walk on your own (Guy or Gal)

I believe is something like this
Woman- knowing you can walk by  yourself and not having to have us there. but Surrendering and allowing us to try to walk beside you.
Man- surrendering the ability and enjoyment to run in the pack, and walking beside her.. Allowing your heart to care and be entangled by her.

Each gains a independence knowing they have someone to count on, having someone to walk beside... knowing there is someone to catch them when they spread the wings to fly and divebomb.

[newkris]

perfect brandon, perfect!   

[SippinTea]

  Ditto

[wire2john]

I don't believe that's an accurate assessment brother.  If anything it may force them to stay married because of love and working on the relationship rather than obligation.  Maybe the men who would have only stayed out of obligation with out reguard for the Mrs. and kids now has a choice and chooses NOT to be vulnerable and have a real relationship that not's based on being the king of the castle but partner instead?

I'm not saying that's even true, but we could come up with a lot of ways to blame females and males alike- equally.  So you have to pin point what happened first: Men being adulterous, abusers and abandoners, or simply dying for some reasong, leaving women to make it on their own, OR women being bent on surviving without a man.  Or another variable that I haven't thought of right now.....

Men love differently than women do, and for different reasons. The concern I was describing is a kind of love. This is the first time I know of in history when women haven't held a "dependent" role in society. The common explanation is that men are stronger and used brute force to work things in their favor, now we're enlightened, etc., etc... but I'm skeptical about this explanation. Men are raised by women. Who has more access to influence over the young male mind than mothers? Look at what's happening in the black community. Black women have universal access to financial independence through state and federal programs. Is it just a coincidence that black men aren't marrying these women and raising their children in the kind of numbers considered normal in other racial demographics?

[newkris]

I don't believe that's an accurate assessment brother.  If anything it may force them to stay married because of love and working on the relationship rather than obligation.  Maybe the men who would have only stayed out of obligation with out reguard for the Mrs. and kids now has a choice and chooses NOT to be vulnerable and have a real relationship that not's based on being the king of the castle but partner instead?

I'm not saying that's even true, but we could come up with a lot of ways to blame females and males alike- equally.  So you have to pin point what happened first: Men being adulterous, abusers and abandoners, or simply dying for some reasong, leaving women to make it on their own, OR women being bent on surviving without a man.  Or another variable that I haven't thought of right now.....

Men love differently than women do, and for different reasons. The concern I was describing is a kind of love. This is the first time I know of in history when women haven't held a "dependent" role in society. The common explanation is that men are stronger and used brute force to work things in their favor, now we're enlightened, etc., etc... but I'm skeptical about this explanation. Men are raised by women. Who has more access to influence over the young male mind than mothers? Look at what's happening in the black community. Black women have universal access to financial independence through state and federal programs. Is it just a coincidence that black men aren't marrying these women and raising their children in the kind of numbers considered normal in other racial demographics?

what?  what does race have to do with anything? 


i am totally not following you here. 

and as for women historically being independant, there are lots of examples of women throughout history who made their mark independantly.  this is not a new thing. 

[TRAV]

   "What's love got to do with it, got to do with it..." 

[newkris]

sorry, trav, this isn't the song on your mind thread.  you are  !!  and i know about those things. 

[TRAV]

sorry, kris, but who needs a heart when a heart can be bro-OOOHH-ken?

[newkris]

as a woman who is decidedly over independant, so they say, i must agree with you.  who needs a heart?

oh no not i!  i will survive!   

[TRAV]

...at least it's not raining men...!

[newkris]

what?   

good thing it's not, God knows i have WAY TOO MANY men in my life as it is. 

[Sister_Mom]

what?   

good thing it's not, God knows i have WAY TOO MANY men in my life as it is. 

There is no such thing!!!!! 

[newkris]

oh honey, i got a couple for you, then! 

[Sister_Mom]

oh honey, i got a couple for you, then! 

[RainbowJingles]

oh honey, i got a couple for you, then! 

Oooo!  Oooo!  Oooo!
What about ME!?!?!
Send one of them out to California, will ya?
Make him about 6 foot tall or so with a deep, intense love for God.  While you're at it, find a strong, good-looking, brave, and confident one (the same one, actually, come to think of it; I'm aware that one is indeed enough for me).  It'd be nice if he was a bit older than me and the kind of guy my Dad would approve of.  :-)

Got any like that, newkris?   :grin: