Love = Freedom?

[TRAV]

"I march in the parade of liberty, but as long as I love you I'm not free."


This came from an art piece (Sharon Hayes/NewMuseum/NYC). It's really the exploration of the statement I am interested in, rather than if I agree or disagree with whoever said it. Comments.....please.

[zizi90]

love is...commitment.

some may see that as the opposite of freedom i guess....

[apsurf]

The freedom he so thought about was only the freedom to pursue only what you desire. 

Love becomes a choice to pursue what makes someone else happy, thus in the process fullfilling what you desire.  It is a choice (or supposed to be) to willingly lay aside what you desire in a selfish manner to make someone else happy.  It is a choice to expand your heart to love someone else more than yourself.

Kinda like the story where the man sold his gold pocket watch that had no chain to buy a very nice and well made brush for his wife's beautiful long hair. and She sold the length of her hair to buy a chain for his watch....neither one knowing what the other was doing, but yet they so desired to make the other happy they gave up their most treasured possessions

[TRAV]

What is freedom? I have heard it said that "Freedom without boundaries is chaos."

[InChristGirl]

What is freedom? I have heard it said that "Freedom without boundaries is chaos."

I agree with that statement!

[titushome]

When I love someone, I am bound/committed to that person by my own choice; I don't feel that it infringes on my freedom at all.  I am free to leave the relationship at any time.  My freedom to choose is still intact.  I love, so I keep my commitment.

[lojack]

totally off topic, but nice pic InChristGirl   

[Newsman]

   At the risk of seeming less than totally Grumpye (and we all know I'm the Grumpyest of the Grumpye) 

   To love is for one's own desires to have changed to where doing what will help and benefit the person being loved is what the person loving desires most..it is a transformation from what we were and the desires we had, to what we become in loving another and wanting to help them.


John 

[sunlight]

with that definition... no wonder we are to love God... and then everything else will fall into place.

[newkris]

hmm.  interesting.

[wire2john]

Marching is a discipline. It sounds like she's fought love in the past; trained herself to resist it in the future. The liberty she's refering to isn't love, but freedom from love... yet without love life is just a march to nowhere (a parade). Also, parade has more than one meaning, one being "to assume a false or misleading appearance". I think she secretly knows this "parade of liberty" is a sham.

[alohilani]

I think it depends on the way that you view love and how selfish your motives might be.

To me, freedom (liberty) is the absence of fear to take action, and perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18), therefore, when you have perfect love in your life, you have the ability to be free in your thoughts, words, and actions.

I also think that when you truly love someone or something, you make a concerted effort to lay aside personal regard for the sake of that love. In this way, you are not at liberty to operate selfishly, or only for your own personal gain, but instead, you make decisions for the sake of your love.

So true love gives you the liberty to express love to others freely and the ability to move past yourself. I'm seeing a lot more liberty in love than out of it.

[wire2john]

http://www.newmuseum.org/exhibitions/17

[newkris]

so, john, now that you have seen what she's about, what do you think of the statement?  does knowing more about her as an artist and her intended message affect what you think?

[wire2john]

so, john, now that you have seen what she's about, what do you think of the statement?  does knowing more about her as an artist and her intended message affect what you think?

Not really. She doesn't sound like a 'Proverbs 31' woman to me. I hope you New Yorkers can reach her though! She needs God just like the rest of us. 

[TRAV]

so, john, now that you have seen what she's about, what do you think of the statement?  does knowing more about her as an artist and her intended message affect what you think?

Not really. She doesn't sound like a 'Proverbs 31' woman to me. I hope you New Yorkers can reach her though! She needs God just like the rest of us. 

I was really hoping you would do it, John.

[wire2john]

so, john, now that you have seen what she's about, what do you think of the statement?  does knowing more about her as an artist and her intended message affect what you think?

Not really. She doesn't sound like a 'Proverbs 31' woman to me. I hope you New Yorkers can reach her though! She needs God just like the rest of us. 

I was really hoping you would do it, John.

I wish I could Brother, but it'll take a man-on-the-scene if you know-what-I-mean. 

[newkris]

john, does the fact that she "needs Jesus" disqualify her artistic thoughts to you?  that's what i meant to ask.

i realize that her lifestyle is not the same as yours, but does it enforce what you think about love and freedom?  or does it make it so you won't even consider what she's saying?

let me try one more time to clarify:  does the fact that she is a lesbian (presumably) artist from NYC who practices unusual forms of artistic expression keep you from hearing her statement? 

[wire2john]

James 3:11
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Matthew 7:17
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

This issue was settled long before we were born. If you want to "eat her fruit" that's up to you. I'll pass but thank you all the same. 

[Sis]

Just because someone's not a Christian doesn't mean they don't have something good to say sometimes. You're not planning on a relationship with her. You're not listening to her preach about her lifestyle, so why not take a minute to listen/observe? No harm in that.

[wire2john]

On the contrary, I think I'm the only one here who actually tried to decipher what she was saying rather than spouting my mouth off about what I think about love and freedom. Read my posts. But praise God, even the natural world teaches that if you live in darkness even simple things become difficult and complicated. I think that sums up the majority of attempts at artistic expression. And here's the proof:

Proverbs 18:2
A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Proverbs 10:20
The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.

Now we may disagree here, but I think being a lesbian puts you near the front of the line when it comes to being a fool, so consider what the Prophet is telling us about them.

[newkris]

how do you know she's a lesbian?

you presumed it from the same sentence as i did, i bet, but neither one of us really knows.  we know that the lesbian culture supposedly likes her art.  that's all.  that's a pretty broad assumption.  that's why i put a disclaimer in what i'd said.

but we don't know.

and i'm not sure that has anything to do with her statement about love and freedom.  just trying to gauge where others draw their ideas and perceptions from. 

i find it all interesting.

[TRAV]

On the contrary, I think I'm the only one here who actually tried to decipher what she was saying rather than spouting my mouth off about what I think about love and freedom. Read my posts.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to avoid. But doggone it, ya went and did it anyway....

reminder ---->

It's really the exploration of the statement I am interested in, rather than if I agree or disagree with whoever said it. Comments.....please.

Now, you might just hafta leave the garden . . . watch those good and evil tress from now on. They'll getcha!

[wire2john]

Hey, she asked and I answered.

john, does the fact that she "needs Jesus" disqualify her artistic thoughts to you?  that's what i meant to ask.

i realize that her lifestyle is not the same as yours, but does it enforce what you think about love and freedom?  or does it make it so you won't even consider what she's saying?

let me try one more time to clarify:  does the fact that she is a lesbian (presumably) artist from NYC who practices unusual forms of artistic expression keep you from hearing her statement?