Ok, I don't understand the need for bodily ornamentation such as tattoos in the first place, but some of the reasons people have for getting them boggles the mind.
I have a friend that decided to get a tattoo. I tried to talk her out of it. I even gave her scripture. It was all to no avail. She said the scriptures I gave her pertained to heathens, not Christians. She wanted to get a tattoo to show her love of God and that she is a Christian.
So, she got the tattoo.
As I said earlier, some things I just don't understand, but I guess a tattoo of a cross right above her "hoo ha" so people can see it when she wears her bikini proclaims her christianity like nothing else.
I guess I am just getting old.
Another thing I will never understand... Are there any standards left when it comes to getting married?
Another friend of mine (mind you, neither this friend or the one in the story above are in, or to my knowledge, have ever been in the truth. They go to "christian" type churches), got back in contact with an old friend from high school on Facebook. They graduated the year before me I think.
Anyway, she ended up leaving her hubby and marrying this guy.
Oh, she proclaims to be a christian while he proclaims to be an atheist.
That is only part of what I found troubling.
What I really found troubling were all the posts of support for both of them that their friends were posting and how happy all their friends were for them.
I find people to be morons, across the board.
I don't understand how a brown cow can drink green grass and give white milk!
I don't understand why we drive on parkways and park on drive ways!
I don't understand how people can live like Satan all week and on Sunday show up all grins and smiles.
This reminds me of something Bro. Huntley said at NC Family Camp '86:
"I don't understand anybody who was a fireball for the devil, but now they're a little ol' fizzle for God. I don't understand anybody who was a Niagara for the devil, but now they're a little drip drop for God. I don't understand anybody who was a lion for the devil, but now they're a mouse for God. I don't understand anybody who shouted for the devil, who danced for the devil, and now they won't do it for God."
I have a hard time with understanding the "support" so many Apostolic give someone that is for all we know, something wrong & totally out of the will of God. Divorce is a big one, I'm seeing that right now. Both 'in church' both partying their brains out, totally obviously backslidden. One divorces the other & posts about the stress of it all. At what point do people stop saying things like, "you'll come out stronger, God has better things for your future, just hang in there there, God will see you through, your blessed & highly favored!" Um... all rubbish in this situation.
The one doing the "in your face" sin (like 1/2 naked pictures of new tatoos) & complaining is the one that is divorcing the other. But because she's social she's getting encouraged.
I know we are supposed to be positive but come on!
the ones i dont understand are the ones that claim they reach out to sinners but refuse to have contact with anyone they deem "not like them"
i have a good laugh at people on fb and other sites, sending out requests to only apostolics.
this one guy send me a message earlier that he sent me a request because he thought i thought like him but seeing i was controversial has felt the need to delete me. soul winning is controversial?? LOL
if it wasnt so sad i would find it amusing
Quote from: MellowYellow on April 18, 2011, 07:31:00 PM
I have a hard time with the "support" so many Apostolic give someone that is for all we know, something wrong & totally out of the will of God. Divorce is a big one, I'm seeing that right now. Both 'in church' both partying their brains out, totally obviously backslidden. One divorces the other & posts about the stress of it all. At what point do people stop saying things like, "you'll come out stronger, God has better things for your future, just hang in there there, God will see you through, your blessed & highly favored!" Um... all rubbish in this situation.
That's when you pipe up and post, "Divorce is of the devil and you're both a bunch of sinning heathens, stronger my hindend...."
And then after the fur all settles back to the ground, and you've been defriended, just smile and laugh and go on your merry way. lol :P
Quote from: Scott on April 18, 2011, 12:47:16 AM
I don't understand how a brown cow can drink green grass and give white milk!
I don't understand how a cow drinks grass.
I've seen a lot of cows, and nary a one of them ever made a green grass smoothie...
:laughhard: @ Seth!
MY,
Totally agreed! Divorce is a sin and is only allowed if your spouse commits adultery. But even then I think God would prefer people work things out and stay together. I too can never give words of support or encouragement to someone who is divorcing their spouse. Unless their spouse commited adultery. Then of course I tell them how sorry I am that things have happened that way. The man represents Jesus (or is supposed to) and the woman represents the church. Just as Jesus won't divorce his church, a husband and wife shouldn't divorce each other. The devil loves divorce and hates marriage because of what those things represent.
I'm going to disagree with some of you here.
Adultery is the one method specifically enumerated in Scripture where someone could divorce and MARRY AGAIN without being sin. We don't preach that in churches, because it hits too close to home for some. However, A woman shouldn't have to be a punching bag, and I'm not going to tell a woman who's,beaten black and blue she dopesn't have a right to divorce the husband. Now, I don't think she has the right to remarry, as long as the husband has not committed adultery, but divorce and having other 'partners' can still be two different issues..
It would be ideal if adultery-affected couples could, with the help of God, recover, and they can. But it was in place under Old Testament Biblical days where the guilty adulterer shoud have been stoned to death, and the other party in the marriage would have been a widow or widower, and free to remarry
That stance is altered somewhat when Jesus said for the one without sin to cast the first stone at the woman, but he told her to go and sin no more. In our society, you legally can't do anything to even a habitual adulterer, other than improve your divorce case.
Let's also talk brass tacks. The society we have, even in the Apostolic Church, is NOT going to see the VAST majority of 20-40-somethings who get a divorce stay sexually inactive. The most that will happen if they remarry is that, for some organizations, it would prohibit them from holding ministerial license.
YMMV, of course.
John
exactly SirJ :highfive:
no no no, my post has nothing to do with divorce being right or wrong in itself. But about people making HUGE life decisions while they are living like the devil. And because there are concessions given for divorce for certain circumstances and it all is of a private nature, people don't ask or know.
So instead of holding back until they DO know or praying for the person and encouraging them to come back to God, they just blanket it all, approving and supporting something that they have NO idea if it qualifies as right or if the parties involved are acting in any kind of a honest state.
This happens to be people who I consider friends, who I have been an ear to, time and time again. And right now, there are decisions going on that have nothing to do with what God thinks. My heart breaks for these people who need to get back to JESUS. But here are all these folks saying stuff that just helps keep my friend feeling like it's ok to be given into such carnality, to give herself a break. Some have literally used scriptures about being suffering for Christ's sake and God ordering their steps. God does not order sin, and I don't mean divorce. So there is a breakdown at what people are calling themselves "ministering," and it's not even where God is at.
We can say the right things all day, but if it's not rightly applied, it can be harmful. We have to be in Truth, yes. But also the Spirit which is discerning and timely.
When it comes to the whole adultery/divorce issue, which is huge... We can't give some blanket statement about it being OK to divorce when there has been adultery, when the Word says, "Because of the HARDness of your hearts.." and when God wants to do a greater work, heal the people and the marriage for a much more Glorifying testimony, instead of settling for some, "I have a RIGHT to because they did me wrong." :2cents:
Quote from: Newsman on April 18, 2011, 10:04:23 PM
Adultery is the one method specifically enumerated in Scripture where someone could divorce and MARRY AGAIN without being sin.
I agree with your sentiment about women getting away from abusers, but this idea that adultery is a grounds for divorce and remarriage is inaccurate.
Fornication, not adultery, is the only grounds for divorce and remarriage. The confuse comes because we do not understand betrothal. When a couple is betrothed, they are legally married (as were Joseph and Mary before the birth of Jesus) but they have had no union. During this time a man goes to prepare a place for himself and his bride (Jesus went to prepare a place for his bride, the church). If, when a man returns to collect his bride, she has committed fornication (maybe she is pregnant or has had a child) then he has the right to divorce her (just as Joseph intended to do to Mary). But once the marriage is consummated fornication is no longer possible, only adultery.
Cold Water Kid, request scriptural substantiation for that last sentence.
One thing I will never understand is why people keep forgetting me when they are notifying members of a group about a change of plans. Last night I showed up at the church because the youth group was going to be there from 5pm to 7pm making chocolate covered peanut butter eggs to sell. Nobody there... called the youth pastor. "Oh we changed that to Tuesday night." And... who was supposed to tell me?
Once would be irritating. After the first ten times one begins to get suspicious. It's not one group or one leader that forgets me either, it's almost everyone. And it's not that they are forgetful... everyone else always knows. I'm always the only one that nobody thought to inform when a meeting is canceled or moved to another day. It has reached the point where every time I drive to church for (insert practice, planning session or other meeting here) I always wonder if anyone else will be there.
Kind of makes you wonder if you're really part of the group, ya know?
No problem, but I think I just edited it, lol. What did it say?
Wow, that sounds like some kind of trial or tribulation ( I'm not sure about the difference). Are you sure that they have your phone number, email addy, etc?
Quote from: Psalm_97 on April 20, 2011, 04:23:57 AM
Cold Water Kid, request scriptural substantiation for that last sentence.
Oh yeah, I remember now.
Romans 7:2
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
1 Corinthians 7:39
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
Been the same phone number at this house all my life, and it's in the church directory. Been the same email since I first got internet.
Maybe I'm just so good at fading into the background that I'm TOO good. Or maybe nobody thinks of good ole Bro. Isaac unless some kind of audio needs to be set up, or CDs burned, or someone needs to run the sound booth, or...
Wow, that last sentence was a bit sharp. Maybe I need to go cool down.
*Goes off to find a big bucket of ice water to stick his head in.
Well, don't forget the one who matters most; I can assure you that Jesus is glad to see you when you show up for events and feels your absence acutely when you don't.
Cold Water Kid,
I want to thank you fo spurring me to do some detailed reseach on this issue. While I'm not in agreement with the exact nature of your point, you have spurred me to both do some detaikled reseach, and it has inspired me to dio more.
John
Awesome John! The more you look into it the deeper and more profound it gets; it is a wonderful study. If you ever want to trade notes let me know!
Lady Melodya,
My apology for misunderstanding you.
Cold Water Kid,
I may do so. I'm going to give this area soe more thought and study.
John
No problem John. It's hard to not let thoughts on divorce come up when mentioning divorce. You'll be happy to know this situation has no black and blue people involved. :updown:
CWK, I knew the part about the betrothed but I had never put it together that it says fornication, not adultery. I think I had even had thoughts along those lines because I had heard a little about that but could not solidify it. This makes SO much sense and causes the other scriptures in which it says if a person divorces their spouse and marries another, it's adultery. Amazing. Wow.
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Mar 10:11-12 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.
1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
Wow. How did I not see that before and yet still know that scripture does not contradict itself. One who marries a divorced person and one who is divorced who marries, commits adultery.
1Cr 7:11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.
1Cr 7:15-18 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife? But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches. Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised.
Makes SO much sense! Husband is to present himself as Christ, giving his life for his bride, whether she is faithful or not. He patiently holds up His portion to the bride, giving His name and possessions, yet it's called the marriage supper of the Lamb for a reason, THAT's the "wedding" by our culture's understanding. THIS is why once saved-always saved is NOT correct. Because the marriage supper has not yet happened. If we are found in idolitrous fornication, we can be refused; but once we "make it" to heaven, there is NO separation ever! He HAS paid the price for us for the here and now, we ARE His. Yet He has gone to prepare a place for us. But when He returns will He find faith? Wow. I am blessed and sobered by the power of the marriage.
We are to example the very promise of God, the very relationship of Christ and the church through our marriages, to eachother and the world. No wonder the world doesn't see so much Christ as they do themselves in the church, which is not very motivating to convert. Who wants a marriage where it could end? Who wants THAT as the representation of our relationship of God? Yet w/ so much divorce, that is exactly the message that is sent, if they have the basic understanding that marriage is a representation of Christ and the Church, and that divorce and remarriage is ok if the circumstances are "right." However, there is ONLY one God, only ONE Groom.
Mal 2:14-17 Yet you say, "For what reason?" Because the LORD has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant. But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth. "For the LORD God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one's garment with violence," Says the LORD of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously." You have wearied the LORD with your words; Yet you say, "In what way have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil Is good in the sight of the LORD, And He delights in them," Or, "Where is the God of justice?"
I have really wondered before if we haven't fallen short in our understanding of the word "married" and "divorced?" I have yet to find that divorce is an end to marriage whatsoever. The thing about putting something away, is that you can always take it back, and it inferrs a continued possession.
What a beautiful and powerful thing God has done with us! And yet, THIS, here and now is not IT. This is the courtship. Just makes so much sense....
And how much are we so close to the END like the days of Noah!
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
How very awesome is God's Word! It is HOLY and True, and He has Commanded us to be HOLY as well.
Our society, even within the church, does not place near enough or as much value on chasity. And our culture is so different. So I think much of the scriptures about the harshness of fornication/adultery fall on deaf ears.
Deu 22:23-24 "If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, "then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you.
Obviously we don't stone, disfellowship, or really anything when this occurs in the church. We're careful not to judge their eternal salvation though sin is sin, there is still hope. And we are eager to see restoration, though I know that doesn't happen in all churches. But it's interesting to note that the engaged girl -by our standards- is labeled the wife in scripture.
I think we've been reading scripture through American culture. So that we think it's ok to divorce because someone committed adultery. I thought that before this morning! But now I see. We can't hold people in prison in our own homes and force them to live with us because we're married. We have to let them leave if they choose. But it doesn't end the marriage.
In the OT, adultery= death. In the NT, the dispensation of grace, we are to forgive. And I know, there are all these millions of possible scenarios that makes that unfair. But I truly believe that is also like the "legalize abortion to save the mother" arguement. Extremely few fall into that category and God's truth doesn't change so God has the answer and it's not to compromise truth.
Quote from: MellowYellow on April 20, 2011, 03:49:28 PM
Makes SO much sense! Husband is to present himself as Christ, giving his life for his bride, whether she is faithful or not. He patiently holds up His portion to the bride, giving His name and possessions, yet it's called the marriage supper of the Lamb for a reason, THAT's the "wedding" by our culture's understanding. THIS is why once saved-always saved is NOT correct. Because the marriage supper has not yet happened. If we are found in idolitrous fornication, we can be refused; but once we "make it" to heaven, there is NO separation ever! He HAS paid the price for us for the here and now, we ARE His. Yet He has gone to prepare a place for us. But when He returns will He find faith? Wow. I am blessed and sobered by the power of the marriage.
Amazing, isn't it? I guess we should not be surprised that the devil would want to distort our understanding of marriage in order to hide these precious truths from us. I don't know about the rest of you, but I plan on laughing my head off when he is finally taken up by an angel and thrown into the Lake of Fire!