HONOR OR OBEDIENCE (Est 1:12): Artaxerxes was born in 483 BC, the year of the great banquet described in Esther 1. It's possible that Vashti was pregnant with her son at that time and therefore unwilling to appear before the men. It was most disgraceful for women in those days to appear in public pregnant or unveiled.
If she was truly pregnant as was most likely this would be the most disgraceful thing possible to a woman. Thus she had to make a decision, whether to stand by her honor and character, or submit to the wishes of a drunken king. She chose to stand by her honor at the loss of her position. The fact that he would not allow anyone to look at his face ... See Morebut wanted his subjects to look upon his queen shows how little he esteemed women.
Whatever her reason it seems obvious that it would have to be legitimate because nobody in their right mind would disobey a despot who was known for the most inhumane and cruel treatment of anybody who disobeyed him.
By. Kelsey Griffin
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
Hmmm.... I have some ideas that came to mind from your post.
Before I get into them, though, I do need to clarify that when reading the old testament I tend to read the story, try to find the lesson of the story, and to find the correlation between the lesson and the church age today. That may help others understand what I am about to say.
Three things came to mind while reading your post.
#1. The placement of the gentiles in the Jews place.
Think of the story characters in this way: The king as God (the position, not the behavior). The queen as the Jews. Esther as the gentiles. In this grace dispensation, the gentiles have been grafted in where the Jews were cut off. We, being a wild branch were used to replace those that would not do what they were supposed to.
Of course, eventually, when this dispensation is through, the Jews will be grafted back in. The story of Esther does not address this directly, but I do seem to recall that Vashti was never told to leave her home in the palace, but that she was removed from the position as queen.
#2. Vashti was too concerned about herself (call it what you want: honor, dignity, PRIDE) to submit to the will of her king.
If we are too concerned about our situation to submit to our King's wishes (I don't feel good today, I might get hurt, I might lose my job, my kids may never talk to me again, etc) to do God's will, then we need to reevaluate our dedication to Him.
#3. The parable of the talents (Matt 25 and Luke 19)
One of the men given the talents at his master's departure was afraid of the master. In Matthew he says the master is a "hard man". In Luke he refers to him as "austere" (severe, uncompromising). He would not do as the master said because of the master's behavior.
Summarizing #2 and #3, we do not have an excuse to disobey God because of our condition or because of His. I see this as being the moral to the story of the relationship between the king and the queen - not the preservation of one's honor or dignity. God takes care of our honor, dignity, respect, reputation, etc. when we stay in his word and obey him.
Good thought, WT.
On the flip side, though, sometimes disobedience is necessary to maintain a Godly honor - that is, disobedience to man in order to maintain obedience to God.
Interestingly in this case, what if God provoked the king to ask Vashti to do something dishonorable, knowing she would make the honorable choice, creating an opening for Esther so God could use her later on to protect his people? Just some speculation....
do you think that a God who is perfect would provoke someone to do something wrong?
or did he just use what was a bad situation and make something good come of it?
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;...
Romans 1:28
Maybe or he might just stop "striving" to get them to do right.
It's all speculation really... Depending on how you look at it, Vashti could have been doing the right thing or the wrong thing - but really, she was just making the way for Esther to become queen - and that was her "part" in this story. Whether she was doing right or wrong is just speculatory...
Quote from: nicolejoy on June 03, 2010, 01:35:49 AM
It's all speculation really... Depending on how you look at it, Vashti could have been doing the right thing or the wrong thing - but really, she was just making the way for Esther to become queen - and that was her "part" in this story. Whether she was doing right or wrong is just speculatory...
Awesome post...
If this was facebook, I would hit "like". (on that note... I think they should also have a "really like button", a "love's this" button, and a "dislike" button.)
Been thinking that, even went back and reread the entire book of Ester... this is basically the conclusion I came up with.
I came up with a few other thoughts... but I will wait to post them...
Quote from: sunlight on June 02, 2010, 08:16:20 PM
do you think that a God who is perfect would provoke someone to do something wrong?
or did he just use what was a bad situation and make something good come of it?
He actually hardened Pharaoh's heart. I would HATE to be in the position that God Himself found so little good left in me that I became somewhat dispensible.
Quote from: sunlight on June 02, 2010, 08:16:20 PM
do you think that a God who is perfect would provoke someone to do something wrong?
or did he just use what was a bad situation and make something good come of it?
I think God uses Satan to provoke people to act in ways that will fulfill God's plans. Purple Fuzzy and RJ gave excellent examples.
Quote from: RainbowJingles on June 03, 2010, 04:30:13 AM
Quote from: sunlight on June 02, 2010, 08:16:20 PM
do you think that a God who is perfect would provoke someone to do something wrong?
or did he just use what was a bad situation and make something good come of it?
He actually hardened Pharaoh's heart. I would HATE to be in the position that God Himself found so little good left in me that I became somewhat dispensible.
Been in some arguments on predestination with that scripture setting. The point I saw was God did harden pharoh's heart, thus predetermining his choices, but eventually allowed him to make his own choices, 1. after the 10 plauge, to let the children of Israel go, 2. to go back and try to force them back into slavery for which his army and quite possibly even himself paid with their lives.
Quote from: RainbowJingles on June 03, 2010, 04:30:13 AM
He actually hardened Pharaoh's heart. I would HATE to be in the position that God Himself found so little good left in me that I became somewhat dispensible.
I heard an amazing sermon about this topic. The evangelist had been troubled by this very question; why would a loving God choose to harden pharaoh's heart and cause him to be lost? This is the answer God gave him: God didn't choose to harden pharaoh's heart; the problem was that pharaoh's heart was like that mud the Jews were making bricks with. Like clay in the sun, the presence of God hardened pharaoh's heart. Now compare this with David's heart:
# Psalm 22:14
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me.
I suppose all men respond one way or the other when the Lord rebukes them, but as we know from the Word it isn't God's will that any should perish.