I watched a short documentary last night on the incident at Roswell, New Mexico. I admit, my knowledge about UFO's is pretty limited...I like the X-Files, that's about it.
Just curious what other people thought.
Do you believe in extraterrestrials? If so, do you believe they've been in contact with Earth (through the government or whatever)? Do you believe the government has hidden this knowledge from people?
The Air Force had pretty credible explanations for the events surrounding Roswell. Then again, wouldn't they if they were trying to cover something up?
Just curious...for the most part, I'm skeptical (about aliens), but I was just curious about what other people thought.
i seriously thought that i saw a ufo one day. i had gone outside and all i saw was this huge black shadowy
zeppelin shaped object. i was like really getting scared- i asked my friend if she saw what i saw and she was like yeah that's the good year blimp. from where we were at i couldn't read the words. i don't think i've ever been more relieved and felt so retarded all at the same time.
i think that the universe is too expansive for us the be the only ones out there. i don't believe that God would allow for contact to be made if He did in fact create other forms of life.
my dad takes a more spiritual view on the topic of aliens. he believes that they do exist - but that they are fallen angels (demons) that people come in contact with.
I agree Chérie, I believe they are angels and demons. I also believe that some people are crazy and delusioned...lol
I don't think God would leave us hanging like that. But I can see how people can be led to believe in false Gods and make idols unto them by having encounters with demons.
1Cr 10:20 But I [say], that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
I don't really see the purpose of not letting the public know if there are aliens. The big picture would seem to render the earth vulnerable if not united. Also, if the public knew I think it would inspire new things that the "very top secret scientists" don't think of....lol
I do like x-files though.
I heard someone say, I can't remember who, that they think there will be a portion of people that believe in aliens in the last days and attribute the rapture to it and worship what will really be demons.
I believe in aliens. I've lived with two of them. They used to be little brothers, but somewhere about age 11 or so, it became apparent they were really aliens who had been disguised as little boys. :updown:
:beret:
Thats funny, the aliens in MY house were disguised as OLDER Brothers...I guess its just the male gender that is the common factor here.
;)
I can kind of see it both ways...I've often thought that if there WERE aliens, wouldn't God have revealed that in his Word? On the other hand, why would we need to know? And as Danni says, the universe is a pretty vast place....and would God have a reason for us to know that there was life outside of earth?
Plenty of people have posited that the government has a vested interest in keeping conspiracy theories about aliens and alien technology alive to hide the technology THEY have invented and are testing...that seems plenty plausible, especially because even the AF now says Roswell was a coverup to disguise secret military spying technology.
I've always believed they were possibly demons because the Bible calls Satan the Prince of the Power of the Air. Of course, now that I'm older, I wonder just what the Air is that the Bible is speaking of. Is it really the sky or atmosphere? Or is it something else? Any Bible scholars have any ideas? :)
I believe in aliens. And we have many illegal ones near us in the DC area. :laughhard:
Ok, seriously. I always thought of them as demons, but I heard another perespective once. Some believe that the USA was conducting experiments with stelth-type vehicles of all kinds.
Most of the stories came from the late 40's and 50's and that was about the time that the US was experimenting with space flight, etc.
I don't know, it's just something I heard once.
Wow...I didn't realize so many people held the more supernatural view.
In the case of people who claim to have seen the bodies of aliens or the tales of alien autopsies...those clearly don't fit into the realm of the supernatural, at least, if someone is able to autopsy a spirit I'm not aware of it. Do you think those people are just delusional or what?
I'm more inclined to think that a lot of UFO sightings are a combination of unexplained natural phenomena, secret government projects, and people with wild imaginations. But I allow for all possibilities.
QuoteMost of the stories came from the late 40's and 50's and that was about the time that the US was experimenting with space flight, etc.
The air force claims that some people might have stumbled upon test dummies that were being tested in high altitude parachute tests, and thought they were aliens. And of course, they claim the Roswell incident was a high altitude weather balloon that was equipped with spy cameras, that was being tested in order to spy on the Russians.
It's a plausible explanation. But then again....I would expect the Air Force to have a credible explanation to give people even if they were aware of alien contact.
But the government has done a lot of things in secret that the public isn't aware of, so why not? :laughhard:
Aliens? No. UFO's? Yes.
Quote from: minnesota68 on June 22, 2009, 08:25:59 PM
Aliens? No. UFO's? Yes.
Having two kids, I'll bet you see a lot of UFOs! :rofl:
Quote from: bishopnl on June 22, 2009, 06:50:22 PM
Plenty of people have posited that the government has a vested interest in keeping conspiracy theories about aliens and alien technology alive to hide the technology THEY have invented and are testing...that seems plenty plausible, especially because even the AF now says Roswell was a coverup to disguise secret military spying technology.
i do agree that the government is very capable and would have a motive for keeping information about aliens classified, and i wouldn't put it past it.
apparently the mexican government on the other hand was very open about alien sightings recently. lol and no i'm not talking about illegal immigrants.
Quote from: Niki on June 22, 2009, 07:05:07 PM
I've always believed they were possibly demons because the Bible calls Satan the Prince of the Power of the Air. Of course, now that I'm older, I wonder just what the Air is that the Bible is speaking of. Is it really the sky or atmosphere? Or is it something else? Any Bible scholars have any ideas? :)
excellent point!
I don't believe that there are aliens, if there where The bible would tell us.
However, I personally believe that most of the sightings are test craft from aviation manufacturers. In one book about the B-1 and the Stealth Fighter - they talked about the tests that they flew in which many spottings were blown off as UFO hoaxes.
Quote from: bishopnl on June 22, 2009, 12:31:10 PM
Do you believe in extraterrestrials?
I believe it's possible God has created sentient beings on other planets.
Quote from: bishopnl on June 22, 2009, 12:31:10 PM
If so, do you believe they've been in contact with Earth (through the government or whatever)?
No.
Quote from: bishopnl on June 22, 2009, 12:31:10 PM
Do you believe the government has hidden this knowledge from people?
N/A
I think it is only a matter of time until we discover some evidence of past molecular life, even within our own solar system.
As to sentient beings, I'm just not sure anymore.. a question I would have would be, would any alien that had intelligence have a soul? For that is what truly sets man apart from the rest of God's creation.
Now, dipping back for some humor in the musical vault, we go to the old Phil Collins recording of
:sing: It's no fun, being an illegal alien :waving:
John :waving:
here is a video on youtube from fox news about ufo's. the footage was taken by the mexican airforce and released and confirmed by the mexican government. apparently they are calling for more disclosure on aliens and ufos from the american government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqPblNzwD3s&feature=related
I do not believe there are aliens.
I think the Bible is too direct in its statements about the earth and man to leave room for there being other creatures in other places.
Quote from: Chseeads on June 23, 2009, 12:37:42 PM
I do not believe there are aliens.
Of course you would say that...it's in your best interest to keep your true nature hidden. But we see through your disguise...
There's Klingons, Vulcans, and then there's your own alien race...Morons. :waving: :smirk2:
Every time i see this thread title I think of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBVOYkhNb1o
Do you believe in magic in a young girl's soul.......
Yeah, believe in the magic of a young girl's soul
Believe in the magic of rock and roll
Believe in the magic that can set you free
Ohh, talking 'bout magic
do you believe like I believe, do you believe like I believe.............
I believe in aliens. Haven't you seen MIB?
MIB? Men in Black? You saying that Will Smith is an alien?
I think so! Seriously though, I believe in alien life. Permit me to explain why.
1) The universe is so large as to nearly exceed human reasoning and understanding, and that's just the known universe. Scientists tell us that there is a near absolute probability that there are other habitable planets, probably in our galaxy, and definitely in the universe. So that begs the question: why would God create such a large universe only to put intelligent life in one small, insignificant planet? I don't believe that.
2) Scripture was penned by humans to humans. Jesus was born to a human mother, and was in human form. He died as a human being to save human beings, as dictated by theology (the race needed a perfect specimen to give up its life for the others). This blows holes in the theory that the NT plan of salvation would apply to non-humans as well as humans. Let me be clear; the plan of salvation would not apply to intelligent beings of extraterrestrial origin. Obviously, this is speculation on my part, but I contend that, suppose there's a plant of little green men, Jesus would appear as a little green Man, and give them a Word different but completely in agreement with the one we have, and provide them a plan of salvation all their own that would not apply to us.
In theory, we may not be the only humans in the universe; there may be a plant of humans just like us, except Eve didn't eat the apple. They'd all still be running around naked. On second thought, that's not something I want to picture.
As I consider this subject, I then remember where we are and some of the entities that post here. Yup, I do believe in Space Aliens! :darth: :vvader:
Yes, Darth Vader! :laughhard:
I think there is a possibility that life has formed on other planets. What kind of life would be out there is hard to tell, in some cases it may be so alien to us we would not even recognize it as life if we saw it. There has been evidence discovered that supports the hypothesis of microscopic life having existed on Mars at some time. While our current technology isn't such that we have been able to detect intelligent life forms on other planets, I don't discount the possibility that there just may be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. I think the probability of life forming on at least one other planet in the universe is too great to completely ignore.
QuoteI think the probability of life forming
so I take it you do not believe in the direct creation in Genesis? To me, it would be
what would be the probability of GOD creating life somewhere else?
Quote from: MellowYellow on August 24, 2009, 10:52:22 PM
so I take it you do not believe in the direct creation in Genesis? To me, it would be what would be the probability of GOD creating life somewhere else?
Since the formation of organic compounds from purely inorganic materials has been repeatedly demonstrated (22 different organic compounds in one experiment alone), the probability for abiogenesis occurring does exist. Combine that with the fact that 90 different organic compounds (19 of which are found in life on Earth) have been discovered in a meteorite, the probability of life forming on any one of the billions of planets in the universe is high enough to be considered.
Quote from: M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ on August 25, 2009, 06:30:34 AM
Since the formation of organic compounds from purely inorganic materials has been repeatedly demonstrated (22 different organic compounds in one experiment alone), the probability for abiogenesis occurring does exist.
Source(s)?
Quote from: titushome on August 25, 2009, 11:48:03 PMSource(s)?
Miller-Urey (1952) is the most widely known experiment to produce organic compounds from inorganic material. There have been many experiments since then, both replicating the same condition and expanding upon Miller-Urey's conditions. Two sources are Here (http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html) and Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment). You can also find more by doing a Google search for Miller-Urey (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=miller-urey+experiment&aq=1&aqi=g-p1g9&oq=Miller-&fp=12584ad5ddc19a57). Many of the sources found in that search will also give mention to experiments subsequent the Miller-Urey.
Quote from: M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ on August 26, 2009, 08:15:31 PM
Miller-Urey (1952) is the most widely known experiment to produce organic compounds from inorganic material. There have been many experiments since then, both replicating the same condition and expanding upon Miller-Urey's conditions. Two sources are Here (http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html) and Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment). You can also find more by doing a Google search for Miller-Urey (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=miller-urey+experiment&aq=1&aqi=g-p1g9&oq=Miller-&fp=12584ad5ddc19a57). Many of the sources found in that search will also give mention to experiments subsequent the Miller-Urey.
Yes, they produced organic compounds from inorganic material - big whoop. All that means is both organic and inorganic material is composed of the same basic stuff. It's not even in the same ballpark as producing
life from
non-life. While organic compounds are necessary to life, they are not themselves alive.
Besides that, the conditions that had to be maintained in the Miller-Urey experiments weren't anything like what they believe conditions on Earth were like prior to the advent of life (according to them, anyway). To quote from the article you sourced:
QuoteThere has been a recent wave of skepticism concerning Miller's experiment because it is now believed that the early earth's atmosphere did not contain predominantly reductant molecules. Another objection is that this experiment required a tremendous amount of energy. While it is believed lightning storms were extremely common on the primitive Earth, they were not continuous as the Miller/Urey experiment portrayed. Thus it has been argued that while amino acids and other organic compounds may have been formed, they would not have been formed in the amounts which this experiment produced.
In other words, even to produce the organic compounds they did - let alone genuine
life - they required highly controlled conditions unlike anything that might have occurred naturally.
Quote from: titushome on September 04, 2009, 11:02:51 PM
Yes, they produced organic compounds from inorganic material - big whoop. All that means is both organic and inorganic material is composed of the same basic stuff. It's not even in the same ballpark as producing life from non-life. While organic compounds are necessary to life, they are not themselves alive.
But the ability to form organic compounds from inorganic materials shows that there is a probability for life to form from inorganic matter.
Quote from: titushome on September 04, 2009, 11:02:51 PM
Besides that, the conditions that had to be maintained in the Miller-Urey experiments weren't anything like what they believe conditions on Earth were like prior to the advent of life (according to them, anyway). To quote from the article you sourced:
I was not discussing life forming on earth. The subject of the thread is life on other planets. With the billions of planets in our vast universe, the probability of life forming on even one of them is high enough to be considered.
Quote from: titushome on September 04, 2009, 11:02:51 PM
In other words, even to produce the organic compounds they did - let alone genuine life - they required highly controlled conditions unlike anything that might have occurred naturally.
We do not know what the conditions are on all of those planets out there. If we take just one billion of them with one billion different sets of conditions, there is still the probability that one of them could be the proper setting for life to form. Just the fact that the basic building blocks for life can form from inorganic material still leaves the probability that at least one of the other planets does have, or did have, life on it.
Quote from: M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ on September 05, 2009, 06:29:51 AM
Quote from: titushome on September 04, 2009, 11:02:51 PM
Yes, they produced organic compounds from inorganic material - big whoop. All that means is both organic and inorganic material is composed of the same basic stuff. It's not even in the same ballpark as producing life from non-life. While organic compounds are necessary to life, they are not themselves alive.
But the ability to form organic compounds from inorganic materials shows that there is a probability for life to form from inorganic matter.
In some people's minds, perhaps. Really, it's just wishful thinking to suppose these experiments show "a probability for life to form from inorganic matter." It doesn't happen like that.
Quote from: M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ on September 05, 2009, 06:29:51 AM
Quote from: titushome on September 04, 2009, 11:02:51 PM
Besides that, the conditions that had to be maintained in the Miller-Urey experiments weren't anything like what they believe conditions on Earth were like prior to the advent of life (according to them, anyway). To quote from the article you sourced:
I was not discussing life forming on earth. The subject of the thread is life on other planets. With the billions of planets in our vast universe, the probability of life forming on even one of them is high enough to be considered.
Quote from: titushome on September 04, 2009, 11:02:51 PM
In other words, even to produce the organic compounds they did - let alone genuine life - they required highly controlled conditions unlike anything that might have occurred naturally.
We do not know what the conditions are on all of those planets out there. If we take just one billion of them with one billion different sets of conditions, there is still the probability that one of them could be the proper setting for life to form. Just the fact that the basic building blocks for life can form from inorganic material still leaves the probability that at least one of the other planets does have, or did have, life on it.
Point taken - I did have only planet Earth in mind, having forgotten the original topic of this thread.
Your points about life forming from inorganic matter on other planets, however, are still predicated on your first assertion, which is unproven and unprovable - and impossible.
I do think there's something out there.I drive a 18 wheeler for a living and i have seen some strange things in the sky.
you listen to george noory when you're driving?
no, i don't listen to George Noory, i listen to Glen Beck , Sean Hannity and such. was just making a comment on the things i've seen out there on the road...does make me wonder sometimes if there is life out there somewhere.
*Sis hums Twilight Zone theme* :laughhard:
Just wondering...I listen to George quite a bit on podcast. I spend alot of time driving to and from work in east texas, so coast shows keep me from getting too bored behind the wheel.
The Vatican must... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573806,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573806,00.html)
VATICAN CITY — E.T. phone Rome.
Four hundred years after it locked up Galileo for challenging the view that the Earth was the center of the universe, the Vatican has called in experts to study the possibility of extraterrestrial alien life and its implication for the Catholic Church.
"The questions of life's origins and of whether life exists elsewhere in the universe are very suitable and deserve serious consideration," said the Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, an astronomer and director of the Vatican Observatory.
Funes, a Jesuit priest, presented the results Tuesday of a five-day conference that gathered astronomers, physicists, biologists and other experts to discuss the budding field of astrobiology — the study of the origin of life and its existence elsewhere in the cosmos.
Funes said the possibility of alien life raises "many philosophical and theological implications" but added that the gathering was mainly focused on the scientific perspective and how different disciplines can be used to explore the issue.
Chris Impey, an astronomy professor at the University of Arizona, said it was appropriate that the Vatican would host such a meeting.
"Both science and religion posit life as a special outcome of a vast and mostly inhospitable universe," he told a news conference Tuesday. "There is a rich middle ground for dialogue between the practitioners of astrobiology and those who seek to understand the meaning of our existence in a biological universe."
Thirty scientists, including non-Catholics, from the U.S., France, Britain, Switzerland, Italy and Chile attended the conference, called to explore among other issues "whether sentient life forms exist on other worlds."
Funes set the stage for the conference a year ago when he discussed the possibility of alien life in an interview given prominence in the Vatican's daily newspaper.
The Church of Rome's views have shifted radically through the centuries since Italian philosopher Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1600 for speculating, among other ideas, that other worlds could be inhabited.
Scientists have discovered hundreds of planets outside our solar system — including 32 new ones announced recently by the European Space Agency. Impey said the discovery of alien life may be only a few years away.
"If biology is not unique to the Earth, or life elsewhere differs bio-chemically from our version, or we ever make contact with an intelligent species in the vastness of space, the implications for our self-image will be profound," he said.
This is not the first time the Vatican has explored the issue of extraterrestrials: In 2005, its observatory brought together top researchers in the field for similar discussions.
In the interview last year, Funes told Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano that believing the universe may host aliens, even intelligent ones, does not contradict a faith in God.
"How can we rule out that life may have developed elsewhere?" Funes said in that interview.
"Just as there is a multitude of creatures on Earth, there could be other beings, even intelligent ones, created by God. This does not contradict our faith, because we cannot put limits on God's creative freedom."
Funes maintained that if intelligent beings were discovered, they would also be considered "part of creation."
The Roman Catholic Church's relationship with science has come a long way since Galileo was tried as a heretic in 1633 and forced to recant his finding that the Earth revolves around the sun. Church teaching at the time placed Earth at the center of the universe.
Today top clergy, including Funes, openly endorse scientific ideas like the Big Bang theory as a reasonable explanation for the creation of the universe. The theory says the universe began billions of years ago in the explosion of a single, super-dense point that contained all matter.
Earlier this year, the Vatican also sponsored a conference on evolution to mark the 150th anniversary of Charles Darwin's "The Origin of Species."
The event snubbed proponents of alternative theories, like creationism and intelligent design, which see a higher being rather than the undirected process of natural selection behind the evolution of species.
Still, there are divisions on the issues within the Catholic Church and within other religions, with some favoring creationism or intelligent design that could make it difficult to accept the concept of alien life.
Working with scientists to explore fundamental questions that are of interest to religion is in line with the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI, who has made strengthening the relationship between faith and reason a key aspect of his papacy.
Recent popes have been working to overcome the accusation that the church was hostile to science — a reputation grounded in the Galileo affair.
In 1992, Pope John Paul II declared the ruling against the astronomer was an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension."
The Vatican Museums opened an exhibit last month marking the 400th anniversary of Galileo's first celestial observations.
Tommaso Maccacaro, president of Italy's national institute of astrophysics, said at the exhibit's Oct. 13 opening that astronomy has had a major impact on the way we perceive ourselves.
"It was astronomical observations that let us understand that Earth (and man) don't have a privileged position or role in the universe," he said. "I ask myself what tools will we use in the next 400 years, and I ask what revolutions of understanding they'll bring about, like resolving the mystery of our apparent cosmic solitude."
The Vatican Observatory has also been at the forefront of efforts to bridge the gap between religion and science. Its scientist-clerics have generated top-notch research and its meteorite collection is considered one of the world's best.
The observatory, founded by Pope Leo XIII in 1891, is based in Castel Gandolfo, a lakeside town in the hills outside Rome where the pope has his summer residence. It also conducts research at an observatory at the University of Arizona, in Tucson.
Ah yes, the Miller-Urey Experiment. What a great support for Intelligent Design. What this showed was that when an intelligent being designs an experiment, controls the conditions, juxtaposes the right ingredients, and applies the necessary power, organic material happens. A tiny reflection of the divine image mirrored in the intelligence, imagination, and creativity of man. PTL.