I have been doing some thinking today and was just wanting peoples input on this. Everytime i listen to christain radio or even go to church everyone is saying how bad obama is and everything. While i do agree that some of the stuff he is doing is far from the way a christain should act does that give us a right to act non-christain about him as well?
Also do politics have a right to be mixed with moral's? I am not sure if I think they should be mixed or not? Again i am being indistinct on purpose as i don't want my opinions to influence the vein of this discussion.
Hope this starts an interesting topic.
Every president or leader is picked to pieces with every move scrutinized by media on one side or another....
Morals should overrule politics. Sadly, politics rule too much of the time.
QuoteWhile i do agree that some of the stuff he is doing is far from the way a christain should act...
He's not there to be a Christian. He's there to be the head representative of "the people" It's too bad that he's a socialist and will push a few things across that may ruin this country.
To quote from another thread, "hate speech legislation" being one of them.
Yes but you did not anwser my main question which is is it right as christains to be standing behind the pulpit // teaching the flock and bashing the man in the process.. I mean in private discussion anything goes but is it a christain attidude to do it behind the stand so to say?
There's a difference between the man and the actions.
Everyone, christian or not, democrat or republican, black or white, straight or gay should honor the office of the president. We should be praying for Obama as the leader of the nation and wish him the best. If nothing else, we should respect the position.
Now, policies and individual decisions are a different story. People should be, and are free to disagree with those as they wish. I'm personally not a fan of politics coming over the pulpit, but sometimes issues do touch on it, such as the hate crime legislation. The pulpit is not a platform for political agendas however.
i voted for obama and here lately even i am questioning some of his tatics.... 1.5 billion for a virus that responds to the flu treatment? outrageous.
I think we should respect THE position. we are urged to pray for thos who have rule. I TOTALLY disagree with politics over the pulpit. And, while I think there is nothing wrong with having and stating opinion, we must be careful of our Christian expectations. I agree, with those stating that morals SHOULD come before rule. and state. and officiality. I dislike Obama, and I feel he is only the beginning of this nation's decline of morality, but there -is- hope.
I think ministers are obligated to take a moral stand. As Seth said, morals should come before politics. Since the federal government is intent on politicizing morality, sometimes the two cross lines. For example, ministers have a moral obligation to preach against abortion, homosexuality, and other issues of that nature. The federal government should have no jurisdiction in these matters, but since they have chosen to, it's inevitable that politics and morality are sometimes going to meet.
As for respecting the office, I respect the office of the presidency. But I have little respect for the character of a man like Barack Obama. I'll leave it at that.
well said.
The federal government should have no jurisdiction in these matters, but since they have chosen to, it's inevitable that politics and morality are sometimes going to meet. [/quote]
lol i don't know how to do that properly yet..
But in response to that.. so much for the seperation of church and state. I wonder how the goverment even got involved into that area of it anyways. Something to research i guess.
I just don't like that everytime i turn on a christain radio station they are saying obama this and obama that. He is still a human being that needs a savior just like us and for people to constantly put him down i just don't see that as being a christain response to the situation. I think prayer and love would be a more appropiate response?
u have to use the
Quotethen what u say...then [ /quote] without the space!
apparently i did it wrong too
[ quote] [ /quote] no spaces
You can read and reread the Constitution and you will find NOTHING about separation of church and state. But what you WILL find is the government has no right preventing citizens from practicing their religion.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religioun, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for redress of grievances."
Which is exactly what they have done with their "laws" about religious symbols in public, especially during Christmas, and prohibiting the freedom of speech they're trying to do with their hate speech legislation.
The constitution is only as strong as the people willing to uphold it, and there aren't many in government positions willing to uphold it anymore. They're trying to change the meanings of it.
Actually...
Congress hasn't made any
Quote from: Sis on May 01, 2009, 08:18:51 PM...law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for redress of grievances."[/i]
That has been the sole property of local ordinance and the Supreme Court. Which is exactly the type of pandering to special interest and judicial activism that the counrty absolutely doesn't need.
Were the prohibitions against religious displays to be challenged in the true spirit of the Constitution, they would not stand. Every law that prohibits such is unconstitutional, regardless where it is or who passed it.
BenJammin
Ok Benjamin caught me in a technicality! I was purposely vague when I used the word Government and "they", but I tripped over it when I posted the First Amendment. LOL
Score
Benjamin 1 Sis 0
Good game More later! :laughhard:
???
I won? I really won???
:partyballoons: :partyballoons: :partyballoons: :partyballoons:
Yay Me!!!
If i try to breathe at the rate of the guy in your avatar BenJammin... I hyperventilate. :lol:
wow...me too!
back on topic folks! this is an interesting thread. I wanna see EVERYONE's views on this.
I agree with what is has been said thus far by most.
There is a problem with just praying adx. Prayer is extremely effective but real prayer moves us also into action. If we stop speaking out against what's wrong, the world will stop hearing that it's wrong and it will seem more right then ever. The Bible tells us that what's wrong will become right and what's right will become wrong. We see that happening more and more.
There is a balance, always a balance. But you are right that we should not just bash Obama in private or in public. On one hand it seems that the future of the USA is more insecure than ever and it's causing people to speak up. On the other, it doesn't seem like enough people are speaking up/out. The area and social circle you're in I think forms how you see the response unless you are trying to be well rounded. I don't hear very much talk of politics amongst the folks in my church, there's a lot more focus on winning the lost.
And as someone said earlier, when politics invade morals, and morals are what are preached from the pulpit, you cannot avoid overlapping. My pastor doesn't bash the president but he has addressed what the "US" is doing. Eventhough we are Christians, we are still human and sometimes righteous indignation can get carnality mixed in there and we don't say things the best way. We need mercy and grace still just as much as the next guy.
I will say that Obama is doing things that are down right evil. Having the US to support abortion clinics around the world bothers me to no end. I homeschool my son and we pray for Obama every morning, for him to have Godly understanding and to be convicted for what's right, and to change the direction he's going, and to cause the US to support Israel. That God would give him dreams and send ministers to share Truth, that the mercy of Jesus would saturate him and he would be saved.
QuoteI will say that Obama is doing things that are down right evil. Having the US to support abortion clinics around the world bothers me to no end. I homeschool my son and we pray for Obama every morning, for him to have Godly understanding and to be convicted for what's right, and to change the direction he's going, and to cause the US to support Israel. That God would give him dreams and send ministers to share Truth, that the mercy of Jesus would saturate him and he would be saved.
Kudos for homeschooling your son. He's probably going to be much better educated that way.
And for Obama doing things that are evil, agreed. I think we ought to pray for Obama, but also to pray against the things that he's doing (the things that are evil). Just because he's the President doesn't mean he automatically gets my support.
It's so hilariously ironic to me that people flipped out when Rush Limbaugh stated he hoped Obama would fail. Wasn't that what every liberal in America was hoping for the Bush presidency? The Senate majority leader publicly declared the war in Iraq lost, and a lot of activists took to the streets denouncing Bush as a war criminal and terrorist. Now that Obama is in office, everyone who opposes him is "against the country." Of course, liberal hypocrisy is never surprising...these are the same people who support millions of abortions but decry simulated drowning on confirmed terrorists.
when did u start homeschooling him?
Quote from: *mesipie* on May 05, 2009, 07:48:39 PMwhen did u start homeschooling him?
this last quarter of the year. It was pert near unavoidable. It has been a long hard year...lol
My mom used to say pert near all the time. LOL
What's the story? Why did you decide to home school him?
MY, i commend your wisdom. I pray daily for the wisdom God has given you. And your kiddo is blessed to have a mother who not only homeschools, but who is great in wisdom. : ]
Quote from: Sis on May 05, 2009, 09:44:48 PMMy mom used to say pert near all the time. LOL
What's the story? Why did you decide to home school him?
I was volunteering a day or so each week at the kids' school in the copy room. A little before Christmas break I asked Andrew's teacher how he was doing. She said he isn't turning in all his homework. Now Andrew, a 10 year old boy, gets a bit lazy right around Christmas every year and needs some good ole' parental motivation to get him back on track. :thumbsup2: Nothing new.
So we get on him a bit and pay closer attention to his homework. A few weeks later I see his teacher and ask for an update.
Now here's 20/20 hindsight for me: I'm the one asking, never does she make any effort to communicate with me on her own. She tells me he's still not turning in all his work. Hmm. So we turn up the heat at home. We start checking his assigment book with what he's bringing home, he gets banned from all entertainment. A couple weeks later, again, I see her at school and ask about improvement: No improvement. So I ask if she can glance at his assignment book to make sure he's actually writing his assignments down, that could be the disconnect, right? She tells me, "
I don't have time to do that, he's in 5th grade, he shouldn't need babysat." And actually, I agree to an extent. I'm not about to baby him, each grade only gets more difficult. He just needs to work harder.
So no entertainment for the rest of the school year, plus more chores to help him appreciate the amount of work he had in the first place. A good amount of stern talking to and what nots. A couple of weeks later, again I ask, this time not feeling good at all about how things are going. Andrew is working his tail off, we're seeing him do the work, he's not a happy camper to want to keep falling short in any area. I look into his organization, I inquire of his social interaction..bullies..etc. Nothing. He's happy, plays football periodically with the boys at recess, no problems in class, isn't too shy, isn't a trouble maker, gets along with faculty. I am so perplexed. She tells me it's the same offering nothing more than lathargic shrugs of her shoulders.
What else do I do but walk him up to his classroom and watch him put his work in the designated basket. Well,
now she takes an interest in his assignment book and writes that he had a missing assignment that day. An assignment I watched him put in the basket. Now I'm livid. I'm upset wondering how he has been working very hard and not getting it recorded.
I go to the principal's office the next morning. The secretary tells me how she had to make copies of all her daughter's work at one time with no uncertain facial expressions. Well, that is ridiculous. The principal arrives and I tell her about it. She assures me that not only do boys go through this at this age, but that she is going to look into it in case there is room for mishap like student helpers or something.
A few days later the principal gets back to me and says that it is a mystery BUT that Andrew's teacher throws away unnamed papers. !!!! Aparently she couldn't have mentioned this the other times?! Honestly, I had not been paying close attention to how often his name was on his work. The principal asked the teacher if she could retrieve the unnamed papers... of course not, she does her work at home and they are irretrievable.
The principal brings in a 3rd party, another teacher that Andrew will report to each morning and afternoon to make sure he has done it, it's named, and has it for the next day. Not 2 full weeks go by and I go up with him to ask about something she wrote on his assignment book about needing another copy of a report that could only be done in class. Ready for the worst, it was nothing. However that afternoon she wrote again that he was missing an assignment. This time one that not only did I see done but now there is that 3rd party teacher that checks. I ask the 3rd party teacher the next morning if everything went well, she said yes, that particular morning Andrew's stuff checked out fine. I told the office I was withdrawing him and wanted a copy of his records.
So that was the last straw really. I was patient but now I had done all that could be done. I went to his classroom and inquired about it. Some background: the night before I drilled Andrew about what happened to the assignment. Finally, exasperated he says that if she didn't have it maybe he never got it at all, he just didn't know what could have happened. Well, I myself seen that completed assignment so here is my son, not even sure of himself anymore, desperate to have some kind of answer because "I don't know" doesn't get far in our house. I'm not against him working hard, learning lessons but this, as his mama, I could see this was too much. The teacher tells me that he said he didn't get the assignment, and I explained that I seen the completed, so did the other teacher, and I seen him turn it in because I was there to ask about the other note she had written him about the report. She said nothing, literally, the woman does not act like she cares. I said, "
Well, I am tired of this, I will be cleaning out his desk." She says she is tired of it too. !!! It was the end of the 2 quarter, his report card was A's and 2 F's. They did a science fair project and his data record kept missing. He did the project twice and still it disappeared, it was a huge part of his grade that quarter.
There ya go. I ordered his diagnostic testing before the cirriculum. This boy tested out in 8th grade social studies, science, reading, and spelling. Math and English are the only two things he's not ahead in. He's working on his school work as we speak. He will be able to have trumpet lessons much easier now and we want to join the Y or something. I'll be having Hannah homeschool starting in the fall as well.
Throughtout all this, God really blessed me. There are teachers and a vice principal at our church who I sought council from. They were so supportive. I've written a letter to the board. It's a lower income school district, though it's the best school in the district. Not as many parents are able to be involved like I am and it makes me want her held accountable so that other kids aren't dismissed as "capable just not motivated" like she put on his last report card.
back to your regularly scheduled program. :updown:
Quote from: Gingerale on May 05, 2009, 11:40:16 PMMY, i commend your wisdom. I pray daily for the wisdom God has given you. And your kiddo is blessed to have a mother who not only homeschools, but who is great in wisdom. : ]
Thanks Ginger! I still need more too. :updown:
MY,
That's insane. First of all, a teacher who THROWS AWAY unnamed assignments? I was in public school my entire life (not that I learned anything from it) and I've never heard of such an irresponsible action. Kudos to you for handling it in such a patience, persistent manner. Once I found out the teacher was throwing away assignments, I would've snapped.
This probably sounds very conspiracy theory-ish, but does she have any clue of any of your personal beliefs? My general experience with public educators is that they tend to be left leaning--I'd hate to think a teacher would abuse her authority merely b/c of a grievance against a parents religious or political beliefs, but I have a pretty low opinion of the public education system (I'm sure everyone here is shocked ;))
My experience has been that other than a few basic things, every useful piece of information I got was acquired outside the classroom. Their is no room in the Constitution for a useless government agency like the Department of Education, and it should be scrapped.
Quote from: bishopnl on May 06, 2009, 06:35:18 PMMY,
This probably sounds very conspiracy theory-ish, but does she have any clue of any of your personal beliefs? My general experience with public educators is that they tend to be left leaning--I'd hate to think a teacher would abuse her authority merely b/c of a grievance against a parents religious or political beliefs, but I have a pretty low opinion of the public education system (I'm sure everyone here is shocked ;))
It's crossed my mind that there could be some personal problem she may have but she has never said anything to me or Andrew lending any evidence. But Andrew has at times been vocal, mostly on the playground about different things. He's had discussions about oneness, baptism and the Holy Ghost with kids before. One kid, who moved earlier in the year, was very very hungry for God and would ask Andrew stuff. This little boy told Andrew that his dad worshipped satan, I have no idea if that is actually true. He said that his dad ripped up a Bible he had. Andrew told me and I asked the secretary if it was a problem for Andrew to give him a Bible on school grounds. The boy rode the bus and was always grounded so we could never get together with him or his family. So we gave him a Bible and his little face lit up, he said now he could finish reading the story of Samson to his little sisters. LOL.. I hope he wasn't disappointed in the ending. He also told Andrew that he listened to "Unshackled" on the radio every night and that they always said they felt better after they prayed but when he prayed he never did.
So.. the teacher had to have known some. I'm obviously conservative looking and so is Hannah, Dakota would ask Andrew Bible questions in class sometimes too..lol Poor Andrew, Dakota would come to school with some wild question and Andrew didn't know many of the answers. 2 teachers in training came to our International Expo last year and liked it. And the principal is a widowed pastor's wife (baptist) who is not shy or at least with me talking about stuff.
Who knows. It is weird though and I've resolved that I probably won't ever really know what happened or why.
That could be a possibility but it also sounds like this teacher is burned out and shouldn't be teaching anymore. I've seen some bad teachers in my life but this one tops the list! Even the bad teachers I've known had time to talk to a parent and show them the work books, etc.
I was reading that and feeling bad for Andrew who was doing the work and getting punished for it because you had no idea at first what was going on.
But once a teacher is tenured, it's impossible to get rid of them. The best they could do is move them to another location.
I have seen kids totally turned off school by actions like this. They hate learning, and end up hating authority because it hadn't been fair.
And I agree, you were extremely patient, but now you have proof that it's not just you. You have another teacher who saw the same thing.
We should definitely pray for our leaders such as Obama...but its obvious this guy is just a puppet to carry us along the one world government path. But really we shouldn't worry over this stuff that Obama is doing just trust in God, he will bring you through. Even if things get so bad to where Christianity is banned and everything associated, which I think is very possible in the future...God will bring us through all of that!
Amen brotha! I totally agree with you! And I think you're right on the money about Christianity being banned.
But perhaps we can slow it down, by speaking out, Until some of our loved ones get in (or back in) church.
Quote from: bishopnl on May 01, 2009, 01:30:56 PM
I think ministers are obligated to take a moral stand. As Seth said, morals should come before politics. Since the federal government is intent on politicizing morality, sometimes the two cross lines. For example, ministers have a moral obligation to preach against abortion, homosexuality, and other issues of that nature. The federal government should have no jurisdiction in these matters, but since they have chosen to, it's inevitable that politics and morality are sometimes going to meet.
As for respecting the office, I respect the office of the presidency. But I have little respect for the character of a man like Barack Obama. I'll leave it at that.
I am in agreement and could not have said better. Thanks Bishop
Quote from: adx on May 01, 2009, 06:51:52 PM
The federal government should have no jurisdiction in these matters, but since they have chosen to, it's inevitable that politics and morality are sometimes going to meet.
lol i don't know how to do that properly yet..
But in response to that.. so much for the seperation of church and state. I wonder how the goverment even got involved into that area of it anyways. Something to research i guess.
I just don't like that everytime i turn on a christain radio station they are saying obama this and obama that. He is still a human being that needs a savior just like us and for people to constantly put him down i just don't see that as being a christain response to the situation. I think prayer and love would be a more appropiate response?
[/quote]It is not Obama we should be speaking out against as much as the stands he takes.