10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

[johndoherty]

Here in this video are 10 questions, feel free to try to answer each of these. WARNING!!! Now this is not for the immature and comes from an atheistic website, but it poses valid questions, and if we can maturely respond this topic will not get banned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

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In the previous video it speaks of the Christian delusion, to understand that please watch this next video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ

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Lets call this an advanced study in apologetics. Here is a crowd mocking Christianity with valid questions, can we correctly and rationally defend them away?

[onli-one-jehovi]

After watching both videos, I come to only one conclusion. Everything is based upon the rational & logical brain. He even said:"Thinking is the solution". Notice that the only rational & logical answer to the 10 questions was: "God is imaginary."

This seems to be what the world is beginning to believe. Christianity is a disease of the mind. Such people are sick and need to be medically treated. It is possible that we will be incarcerated "for our own good". He doesn't realize that the problem is sin affecting the spirit.

I have no other comment at this time.

[johndoherty]

The second video grabs my interest personally. We can rationally dismiss other religions as make believe, such as mormonism and the muslim faith and easily say that they are delusional, but faced with our own christian faith can we see outside of it?   

Often times we do rationalize away valid questions. Its good to be strong in apolgetics, but how far can we take the defense of faith. Can it be branched off into the free thinking world and applied alongside science?

For atheists that question scares the life out of them, but Jerry Falwell vision for the largest Christian university in the world was to train christians as lawyers and educators, to bring Christianity back into the ethical bloodstream of America. From courthouses, to congress, and to our universities.

Does it belong there though?

[onli-one-jehovi]

The second video grabs my interest personally. We can rationally dismiss other religions as make believe, such as mormonism and the muslim faith and easily say that they are delusional, but faced with our own christian faith can we see outside of it?   

There is the term "rationally" again. A person who relys solely upon "ration" will never believe any religion, whatever the deity worshipped. Religion in and of itself is beyond "ration". That's why so many "beliefs" appear totally senseless to the vast majority of "intelligent and educated". A "rational" person tends to view a "religious" person as ignorant and stupid. Privately and sometimes publically.

When religion in christianity is focused upon, it does have a lot of delusion. Such delusion is caused by a concious desire to placate God, via good works and pious humility. It is such that the "rationally religious" aspire to. In fact, the "rationally religious" make the same error as the "rational atheist": they ignore relationship. Not relationship with one another, but relationship with the Creator. The Bible says that God sends strong delusion that they would believe a lie and be damned; because they had no love for the truth.

The 2nd video failed to address the fundamental factor of Christianity - the crucifixtion. Yes there are many delusional aspects to Christian religion, but each denomination all have one factor in common.... the cross. You have to deal with the cross. It cannot be set aside. Question the miracles. Question the prayers. Question the ascention and return. Rationalize them all you want. But you cannot rationalize the cross! It defies Man's intelligence and logic. The cross by-passes the body, leaps over the mind (soul), and stares in the face of the spirit! It is the spirit of Man that has to deal with the cross.

The video fails to address that. The video argument is like comparing the sun to a campfire. Can't be done. That's why the pre-determined answer of "delusional and God is imaginary" are so easily believed. They appeal to the rational mind and ignore the cross; because they are deluded.

John, you've said you're an atheist. Then you say "our christian faith". Can't be both. You're either one or the other. Which one are you?

[EricShane]

wow... I cant believe this guy *still* has this avatar and nobody has said anything to him about it... lol

[onli-one-jehovi]

This is actually a continuation... well, maybe a repetition.... of my earlier post.

The name of this topic is: 10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer!

First, let john answer this: 1 question that every intelligent Atheist must answer!


What are you going to do about the Cross of Jesus?


Without a legitimate response, the 10 questions are moot.

[johndoherty]

I am an atheist,, but I was a self proclaimed christian, and I still regularly attend a UPCI church. so I can use our Christian faith in that context.

So you're saying Christians can't be rational?? How can a person choose a religion or no religion reasonably without ration? To believe in the bible you have to lose all reason? I find it hard to believe a Chirstian can irrationally have beliefs, which then has them to discriminate against other people, wage wars, change how they live their life, choose their life partner, and so on all based on a book the have to suspend all rational thinking to have "faith" in. I don't think many believers would agree with you on that.

Whats wrong w. my avatar? Not a fan of CHIPS?

[johndoherty]

What are you going to do about the cross of Jesus?

what     [hwuht, hwot, wuht, wot; unstressed hwuht, wuht]   
–pronoun
1.   (used interrogatively as a request for specific information):

ok its a silly question, I am not going to break it down word for word. What am I going to do with the cross of Jesus. The cross of jesus...hmm it was made of wood and its gotta be 2000 years old and biodegraded by now, but in case by some odd chance it got preserved... its wintertime anyone up for a bonfire, maybe sell it on ebay, they have some doritoes w. the face of jesus one them going for lots of money, I bet I could get a pretty penny. We can split the profits 50/50. 

[onli-one-jehovi]

I am an atheist,, but I was a self proclaimed christian, and I still regularly attend a UPCI church. so I can use our Christian faith in that context.

So you're saying Christians can't be rational?? How can a person choose a religion or no religion reasonably without ration? To believe in the bible you have to lose all reason? I find it hard to believe a Chirstian can irrationally have beliefs, which then has them to discriminate against other people, wage wars, change how they live their life, choose their life partner, and so on all based on a book the have to suspend all rational thinking to have "faith" in. I don't think many believers would agree with you on that.

Whats wrong w. my avatar? Not a fan of CHIPS?

1... the use of the word "our" denotes a plurality of ownership. By proclaiming yourself an atheist, you have already chosen a different stance. Therefore, between you and any christian, there is no "our". To claim so would be a lie with the intent to deceive.

2... no, christians can be rational about many things. Just not in the way you desire. The Bible says: a carnal mind is enmity against GOD, & flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD. Christians are supposed to be dead to the old life and its carnal (rational dependence) ways. Christians are supposed to put on the mind of Christ. Jesus is the head and christians are the Body. The brain is in the head, not the Body. Therefore, the Body - having no brain (decision making influence) of its own - obeys the commands of the head. Just as Jesus only spoke what he heard the Father say; and did what he saw the Father do; so to does the Body via the Holy Ghost. When you do other than that - operatiing out of your carnal mind, rationale - you will never fulfill the will of GOD. That's how tradition become commandments - someone, somewhere operated "rationally" and not "spiritually".

3... no, never did like CHIPS. The avatar is nothing more than a provoking mechanism. I expect no less from a deluded mind.

[onli-one-jehovi]

What are you going to do about the cross of Jesus?

what     [hwuht, hwot, wuht, wot; unstressed hwuht, wuht]   
–pronoun
1.   (used interrogatively as a request for specific information):

ok its a silly question, I am not going to break it down word for word. What am I going to do with the cross of Jesus. The cross of jesus...hmm it was made of wood and its gotta be 2000 years old and biodegraded by now, but in case by some odd chance it got preserved... its wintertime anyone up for a bonfire, maybe sell it on ebay, they have some doritoes w. the face of jesus one them going for lots of money, I bet I could get a pretty penny. We can split the profits 50/50. 

Cute. About what I expected. Here's my reply:


For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of GOD. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not GOD made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of GOD the world by wisdom knew not GOD, it pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of GOD, and the wisdom of GOD. Because the foolishness of GOD is wiser than men; and the weakness of GOD is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But GOD hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and GOD hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath GOD chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in his presence.    (I Corinthians 1:17-29)


And in closing..... since you acknowledge attendence at a UPCI congregation, then this will not be lost upon you. Sir, you had best repent of all your sins, begging Jesus to cleanse and deliver you of all delusions GOD has sent upon your life. You had best ask the LORD for a love of the truth that you might be saved. Otherwise, you will bust Hell wide open, and the games you are playing will be done.

I have nothing else to say to you, at this time. Come back when you have fruit of repentance. In the meantime, I will pray for you.

[titushome]

John,

I can't watch the videos from here.  Is there any chance you could provide a transcript of the questions you wish to have answered?

[johndoherty]

The avatar was a play on the fact that we are part of the HOMO Genus. yes with the intention of mocking its double meaning, but not to put anyone down.

I just think the infallible word should've atleast made mention that the world was spherical in shape and not flat have edges and ends. God did make it, right?

I just think if we read in the Bible that the World is flat we can see obviously that this book was written by man and not by God. I think rationally (yes I am using the same word, you cannot rationalize away the use of rationalization and make excuses why we can't question the word, if it is infallible it should stand the test....right???) we can see that the Bible is at the very least HEAVILY flawed, and some might continue to see that it might be a work more of fiction than of fact.

[titushome]

I just think the infallible word should've atleast made mention that the world was spherical in shape and not flat have edges and ends. God did make it, right?

I just think if we read in the Bible that the World is flat we can see obviously that this book was written by man and not by God. I think rationally (yes I am using the same word, you cannot rationalize away the use of rationalization and make excuses why we can't question the word, if it is infallible it should stand the test....right???) we can see that the Bible is at the very least HEAVILY flawed, and some might continue to see that it might be a work more of fiction than of fact.

Does the Bible say the Earth is flat?  Where?

[Tsalagi]

What really amuses me is that one 'monkey' sits at one end of a doomaflotchy made of plastic, metal and glass and uses his phalanges to press buttons which make 'letters', which communicates to other 'monkeys' on similar devices thousands of miles away his intentions to conversate.

A "thinking machine".

Essentially, mankind's current best shot at 'making man in his own image'.

And the only thing he can say?

"I don't believe in God, dude."

ROFL

[EricShane]

I just think the infallible word should've atleast made mention that the world was spherical in shape and not flat have edges and ends. God did make it, right?

I just think if we read in the Bible that the World is flat we can see obviously that this book was written by man and not by God. I think rationally (yes I am using the same word, you cannot rationalize away the use of rationalization and make excuses why we can't question the word, if it is infallible it should stand the test....right???) we can see that the Bible is at the very least HEAVILY flawed, and some might continue to see that it might be a work more of fiction than of fact.

Does the Bible say the Earth is flat?  Where?

the bible does say something about there being an angel on all four corners of the earth, or something.

[titushome]

the bible does say something about there being an angel on all four corners of the earth, or something.

Yes, the Bible does mention - more than once, I believe - the "four corners of the earth."  But this can easily be understood as a colloquial phrase referring to the farthest reaches of the earth, and is probably related to the four cardinal directions: North, South, East and West.

The phrase "four corners of the earth" is a far cry from a statement that the earth is literally flat.

[johndoherty]

Isaiah 11:12 
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

The Earth doesn't have corners, a flat earth would....that is old and new testaments. This is not a problem w. translation, and you can rationalize it away, but you would be changing the intended meaning of the bible. If the word is infallible you wouldn't have to make up excuses.

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

The Earth doesn't have ends, theologians will tell you it meant the earth was flat

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Do you believe this verse?

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

All the kingdoms? REAAAAALLLLLYYYY, can a Christian believe the "infallible" word of god after reading this, no non-christian outside of the Christian delusion would see this the same way you see greek mythology. As imaginary, and make believe.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.   (NIV)

The sun is magic and hurries. its cool like that! The Earth doesn't revolve, but the sun revolves around us and can hurry. Cool! Another innaccuracy.

[Tsalagi]

The Earth doesn't have corners, a flat earth would....that is old and new testaments.

Isa 40:22      [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Even if it were considered flat, a circle doesn't have corners

[titushome]

The Earth doesn't have corners, a flat earth would....that is old and new testaments. This is not a problem w. translation, and you can rationalize it away, but you would be changing the intended meaning of the bible. If the word is infallible you wouldn't have to make up excuses.

The Earth doesn't have ends, theologians will tell you it meant the earth was flat

As I wrote before, the references to the "four corners of the earth" and the "ends of the earth" are methaphorical.  Figurative.  Is it really so hard for you to imagine that the writers of the Bible could have employed such language?  Or do you suppose they were so primitive that they understood and described everything exclusively in literal terms?

The sun is magic and hurries. its cool like that! The Earth doesn't revolve, but the sun revolves around us and can hurry. Cool! Another innaccuracy.

Again, it's figurative - poetic, even.  But oh, sorry: I guess I'm giving the biblical writers too much credit again.  Surely the nuances of poetry would have been beyond their limited mental abilities.

And no, I don't believe the writer of Ecclesiastes knew the earth revolved around the sun, and not the other way around.  How could he have known, without a telescope?  He merely described what he observed: that the sun appeared to revolve around the earth.  That his understanding was limited by the science and technology of his times in no way means we should conclude the Bible cannot be trusted.

The problem here is that you misunderstand - intentionally, perhaps? - what is meant when it said that the Bible is inspired by God, true and infallible.  Let me clue you in: it does NOT mean that every last word should be interpreted literally.

[bishopnl]

It seems clear that the problem in John's search for truth was John spent too much time studying science, and not enough time studying scripture.  This explains why he seems to lack even a rudimentary grasp of hermeneutical principal. No serious theologian would assert that the verses in question are the Bible's claim to a flat earth...the only ones doing so are atheists who are so bent on disproving Scripture that they are willing to bend the rules of scriptural interpetation to build a strawman argument they can strike down with ease. 

Or maybe John honestly doesn't know, and thinks the Psalmists reference to God's wings means God is a big bird.  Either way, ignorance abounds.

[titushome]

No serious theologian would assert that the verses in question are the Bible's claim to a flat earth...the only ones doing so are atheists who are so bent on disproving Scripture that they are willing to bend the rules of scriptural interpetation to build a strawman argument they can strike down with ease. 

There you have it.

[Tsalagi]

k, major flaw of logic in the 'why prayer is a delusion' video.  In the video, the narrator likens prayer to asking a 'magic horseshoe' to affect the way six dice land (to give six sixes).

In other words, the narrator is under the delusional belief that prayer is a 'tool' Christians use to 'help them in their life' and 'get them what they want'.

I will not explain the inconsistencies, a minister should know what they are.  Speaking of which, I am beginning to disbelieve your story of being a minister facing a crisis of faith for the following reason(s):


Those arguments presuppose erroneously; indicating a lack of depth of knowledge concerning scripture and its true meaning.

Your understanding of basic scripture and the principles embodied therein appears lacking in these most basic areas. 

If you don't have enough knowledge of scripture to even recognize a cogent argument against scripture or belief when you see it, how in the world did you ever manage to minister to anyone (rhetorical)?

In other words, not so much a "straw man" as a "not-even-in-the-parking-lot" man. 

Kick it up a notch, Charlie - to the level of knowledge expected a minister, at least.  Or risk being labeled a troll, a plant, et cetera.

[bishopnl]

Ditto, Tsalgai.  I, also, am a bit suspicious for exactly the reasons you mention.

[SippinTea]

Make it three, then... *wry grin*

[rootbeer]

There are things that we believe that defy logic and reasoning.  We believe in a God that can make impossible things happen.  To the anti-religious person, that's equivalent to believing in Santa Clause.