ARE AMERICANS READY FOR JUDGMENT?

[OGIA]

The authors mentioned did consider/present themselves as Christian; translated into the kingdom of light by the blood of the Lamb.

There were many in the days of the Lord's existence on earth that thought themselves to be Abraham's offspring, too.  It's not what man thinks he is; it's what God thinks he is.  I don't care how "enlightened" some of the men mentioned were, it does not make the children of God. 

[SippinTea]

There is quite a bit we can learn from the authors I mentioned, and others, even though they fail(ed) to see God's "oneness" (as we call it).

I'm not a big fan of Wilkerson's writings either, although I much admire his work via Teen Challenge.  But if I reject his writings it's because I disagree with what he's written - not simply because he is trinitarian.

I agree whole-heartedly.

There are numbers of oneness apostolic writers I disagree with as well. But that doesn't mean I reject everything they say because I believe they are mistaken/mislead on a some topics.

If I rejected books and sermons based on whether I agree 100% with someone's viewpoint... well, I don't think I'd have any authors or speakers left to listen to.

I attempt to take to heart the good I see/read/hear, and dismiss the other - not throw out the entire person and their works. *shrug*

My two cents...

[Scott]

My comments do not constitute a personal attack.  I am stating my belief that to reject a man's writings out-of-hand because he is trinitarian is foolish, ignorant and arrogant.  There is quite a bit we can learn from the authors I mentioned, and others, even though they fail(ed) to see God's "oneness" (as we call it).

When you direct those comments at someone, it becomes a personal attack. Please read the rules of this board.  I give some leeway in these types of discussions for emotions, but not directed personal attacks.

[Scott]

Is there anything else that can be added to this thread?

If not  I will lock it.

I will give it 72 hours.

[mesipie]

i dont think there is...go ahead and lock it...

[onli-one-jehovi]

There's alot that can be added. No need to lock it because it was once again changed into a oneness vs trinitarian thread.

Shoot man, we've finally gotten more than 2 people responding! I'm still waiting to see the lurkers give some honest insight on the topic's intention.

If you want to lock something out, then lock out that tired old "O vs T" stuff.

Can't we just once be brothers w/o sniping each other to pieces?

Can't we agree to disagree and have a real conversation, with real input that edifys and informs the Body?

I know we can. Please. Just once - overlook the messengers and see the message. Will anyone be mature enough to do that?

Scott, 2000 hits isn't just to see the same-ole-same-ole. Time for the people out there to participate. Don't let injured pride shut down intelligent discussion.

[mesipie]

half those hits were prolly me just trying to get it off my unreads...lol

i personally dont like this thread...i think its sad that gp has started allowing ppl to cause others to question what they believe...when ppl start making oneness apostolics question their beliefs, well...its scary...

i know thats not what it was started for...but it always comes back to that

[onli-one-jehovi]

half those hits were prolly me just trying to get it off my unreads...lol

i personally dont like this thread...i think its sad that gp has started allowing ppl to cause others to question what they believe...when ppl start making oneness apostolics question their beliefs, well...its scary...

i know thats not what it was started for...but it always comes back to that

Yes it is scary. It's always scary to cast aside denominal teachings, personal beliefs, and doctrines in order to look into the Book to see what it really says. It's always scary to come to the conclusion that much of what we think and thought was "truth", turns out to be incomplete or wrong.

But that's what maturity does. That's what progression brings.

Every convert Jesus made while upon this earth; every Jew that followed and was martyred for Him; came out of a personal lifetime of "truth". Each of them had to walk the scary path of spiritual revelation, questioning their beliefs - both correct and incorrect, gaining some and losing others - in order to mature in Christ.

It always comes back to that because that's the purpose of the gospel. That's the purpose of the Body assembling itself - putting each other together - adding to one another in love and edification. That is the purpose of those with much making up for those with little, that the Body have no lack.

It comes back to that in an unhealthy/divisive way when the Body - or portions thereof - remain intent to focus only on their religions traditions, filtering all things thru that rather than the unleavened Word. Apostolics do not have a monopoly on this.

I know many here do not agree with me. That's fine. I know many here do not consider anyone other than "oneness" as belonging to Christ's Body. That's a personal perogative. But I still ask this question:

IF the information/warnings/etc are false due to the "trinitarian" messenger - WHERE are the true warnings/information/etc given to "oneness" messengers?

I'm still waiting for postings of those we can discuss and evalutate. Not argue - evaluate. Just like the intention is to evaluate these.

But we can't do that because it always has to come back to "oneness vs trinity" since it's too scary to consider.

Personally, I hope you are scared. I hope you are shaken. Scared and shaken enough to allow the Holy Ghost to burn thru every misconception and partial understanding. Enough to allow the Holy Ghost to prepare you for the Time upon us. Not fear, but a fearful reverence of the things upon us.

Are we ready for judgement? I would say no. We're not ready for God to shake our foundations and beliefs in order to build upon the Rock. That's why it's scary.

[Scott]

This is an Apostolic Forum.  Other teachings just are not going to be accepted. 

*shrug*

You said it yourself, your own pastor doesn't accept what you teach and believe.

[mesipie]

2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.




God said that He would send a strong delusion to they that dont receive the love of the truth...there are many ppl that have grown up apostolic, and have KNOWN THE TRUTH...but didnt embrace it..or maybe they were tricked by the enemy...and at some point the Lord sent them a strong delusion...im sad that this seems to have happened to some, but i personally rebuke the spirit that some of you are bringing into this forum...i think it is wrong, and is a sin, i dont want that delusion...i dont want to believe a lie and go to hell!!...i know that what i believe is THE truth...i have no question about that, but i pray to God that the things you say dont cause others to falter on their beliefs

delete it scott if i stepped over the line!...sorry if i did

[Scott]

I stand by the doctrine taught by the Apostle's, not some creed determined at the council in Nice.

[onli-one-jehovi]

This is an Apostolic Forum.  Other teachings just are not going to be accepted. 

*shrug*

You said it yourself, your own pastor doesn't accept what you teach and believe.

Yes, this is an Apostolic public forum. As such, it is subject to discussion of all beliefs - including those not necessarily accepted by Apostolics. Experience has shown me that primarily Christians {believers/children of Jesus Christ} post here. Experience has shown that most are Apostolic in background.

Denominally speaking, I am Apostolic too. Believe in Acts 2:38 & Dt 6:4. Obeyed and practice both.

I just came to the realization that there is more to the Bible - and the Kingdom - than that.
I just came to the realization that the Body of Christ is lots bigger than I was taught.
I just came to the realization that the Holy Ghost is an abler teacher than any man.
I just wanted to share those realizations with those like me - Apostolics.

But apparently, most Apostolics can't get past their religion. Such are no different than most Baptists, Methodists, Assembly of God, Catholic, etc. That is where the struggle is - getting past religion and making the effort to "see" what the Bible really says about everything.

But you don't want to hear or consider anything outside of your doctrine and traditions and interpretations. Ok. That's your perogative. I will accept and honor that.

[onli-one-jehovi]

*shrug*

You said it yourself, your own pastor doesn't accept what you teach and believe.

That's right. He doesn't. But you want to know why? I'll tell you.

He is just like you in many, many, ways. He is submerged in the doctrine and teachings of Man and finds any challenge to personal, established beliefs too difficult to face. It is difficult to look at oneself and truly examine every thing you think you believe and compare it to Scripture with no pre-conceived conclusions.

It is difficult to realize that what you thought was "truth" is really not. It is difficult to face the reality that admitting being incorrect - for years - about traditionally accepted practices might result in loss of face, prestige, income, congregants, and friends. So it's easier to find fault with the messenger, rather than consider the message.

He doesn't believe me because I'm wrong. He doesn't believe me because I'm right. Just like so many Christians remaining in spiritual Babylon, the price is too high. To paraphrase an old movie - "He isn't ready to handle the truth".

Thus the continuance in traditional practices. Scripture refers to it in one place as "itching ears".

[onli-one-jehovi]

God said that He would send a strong delusion to they that dont receive the love of the truth...there are many ppl that have grown up apostolic, and have KNOWN THE TRUTH...but didnt embrace it..or maybe they were tricked by the enemy...and at some point the Lord sent them a strong delusion...im sad that this seems to have happened to some, but i personally rebuke the spirit that some of you are bringing into this forum...i think it is wrong, and is a sin, i dont want that delusion...i dont want to believe a lie and go to hell!!...i know that what i believe is THE truth...i have no question about that, but i pray to God that the things you say dont cause others to falter on their beliefs

Actually, God said strong delusion would be upon those who had pleasure in unrighteousness. If you go back to the posts I've made over the years - even the posts in this particular topic - you will never find one instance I supported or encouraged unrighteousness. You will not find one instance in which I did not promote Jesus Christ and a deeper development in relationship with Him. You will not find one instance in which I claimed there is more than one God. You will not find one instance in which I discredited baptism in the name of Jesus.

Not one time.

What you will find is challenges to the notion of only Apostolics being in the Body. What you will find is encouragement to consider the fact that God gives the Holy Ghost to others. What you will find is an ongoing cry to depend upon the Holy Ghost to bring understanding to scripture. What you will find is a demand to search the scriptures and see if all things are so; from the pulpit to the internet - be a good Berean.

I don't want anyone to be lost. I don't want them to remain unlearned either. There is a wealth of knowledge and instruction given by godly saints who aren't in the Apostolic denomination. Shame to see so many saints not use it because of traditional outlooks passed down generation after generation.

I'm still waiting on many questions to be answered. But I guess it is beyond the biblical ability of this denomination. That's why the pat response "They don't believe oneness and baptize trinitarian" is the catch-all solution.

I'm willing to answer for every word spoken here. Every stated comment. It's not about who's right or wrong per se. It's about what God is saying to the churches. It's about God warning His people of things to soon come. He is warning us. He is going to continue judging this nation in ways we've never seen. I just hope we all listen and prepare, because very soon denominations will not matter. The beast will be openly attacking the Body. Not just Apostolics, either.

Brace yourselves. Pray for direction in this hour. Pray for the Body to overcome. Pray to fulfill your part in Kingdom destiny.

Maranantha.

[onli-one-jehovi]

There is quite a bit we can learn from the authors I mentioned, and others, even though they fail(ed) to see God's "oneness" (as we call it).

I'm not a big fan of Wilkerson's writings either, although I much admire his work via Teen Challenge.  But if I reject his writings it's because I disagree with what he's written - not simply because he is trinitarian.

I agree whole-heartedly.

There are numbers of oneness apostolic writers I disagree with as well. But that doesn't mean I reject everything they say because I believe they are mistaken/mislead on a some topics.

If I rejected books and sermons based on whether I agree 100% with someone's viewpoint... well, I don't think I'd have any authors or speakers left to listen to.

I attempt to take to heart the good I see/read/hear, and dismiss the other - not throw out the entire person and their works. *shrug*

My two cents...

Thank you.

[OGIA]

Jerry, you are as guilty of what you accuse others of as you claim the others are.  You claim some new revelation about the Body and are irritated because people won't "heed" Wilkerson's "prophecy" (or whatever he calls it).  Have you ever thought that others (me, in particular) don't want any of these new revelations you espouse?  Don't you get it that, in my case, it's partly because I study with 2 men whose knowledge and revelation of the word of God are what I see to be leaps and bounds above yours?  They don't believe what you do, nor do they heed the words of a man whose fruit has been a bit....well, fruity over the years.  

Go ahead and let people into the Kindgom of God that you think the word of God does.  Go ahead and heed Wilkerson's words.  Go ahead and call Oneness doctrine/discussion tired, boring, old, etc.  [God help me if I ever do!]  Go ahead and continue to sit under a pastor you disagree with just so you can use him as your example of someone (supposedly) in authority over you who is not as "mature" as you and/or whose eyes are not as opened as yours. 

No one is stopping you from carrying on.  Just don't act like you are the "mature" one around here when your doctrine is obviously wrong nor expect what you post to be accepted as "gospel".  You might just very well be the one being deceived, not everyone else.  The bondage of one's beliefs is the strongest bondage known to man.  And I don't know if anyone else has seen that happening to you over the years, but I feel like it has been.
 

But, then again, maybe it's me who is immature. 


Or, maybe we're both still babies.

[Scott]

This is an Apostolic Forum.  Other teachings just are not going to be accepted. 

*shrug*

You said it yourself, your own pastor doesn't accept what you teach and believe.

Yes, this is an Apostolic public forum. As such, it is subject to discussion of all beliefs - including those not necessarily accepted by Apostolics. Experience has shown me that primarily Christians {believers/children of Jesus Christ} post here. Experience has shown that most are Apostolic in background.

Denominally speaking, I am Apostolic too. Believe in Acts 2:38 & Dt 6:4. Obeyed and practice both.

I just came to the realization that there is more to the Bible - and the Kingdom - than that.
I just came to the realization that the Body of Christ is lots bigger than I was taught.
I just came to the realization that the Holy Ghost is an abler teacher than any man.
I just wanted to share those realizations with those like me - Apostolics.

But apparently, most Apostolics can't get past their religion. Such are no different than most Baptists, Methodists, Assembly of God, Catholic, etc. That is where the struggle is - getting past religion and making the effort to "see" what the Bible really says about everything.

But you don't want to hear or consider anything outside of your doctrine and traditions and interpretations. Ok. That's your perogative. I will accept and honor that.

[/quote]

Actually this is NOT a public forum.  This is a private forum and each member is allowed in only up approval by the Admin.  The topics in this forum are subject to the approval and good will of the staff of Godplace.  We do not have to allow any specific discussion and in fact disallow certain topics.

Yes, we are primarily Apostolic / Pentecostals!

Yes, I believe that if God wanted to share a message with the world - it would come through an ''oracle'' that has obeyed his word.  To come from an ''oracle'' that believes differently is akin to calling his word untrue.

[Scott]

He doesn't believe me because I'm wrong. He doesn't believe me because I'm right.

Is that what he told you? Or are you just assuming it because you just don't want to admit that you just might be wrong?

What you will find is challenges to the notion of only Apostolics being in the Body.

I don't care what they call themselves - there is only ONE plan of Salvation.  They can call themselves Hindu Lutheran Buddhists - as long as they've abided by the biblical plan of salvation.

No matter what you say, we are not chaning our minds

I'm still waiting on many questions to be answered. But I guess it is beyond the biblical ability of this denomination. That's why the pat response "They don't believe oneness and baptize trinitarian" is the catch-all solution.

The ''pat response'' as you term it - is not a catch all solution, it is simply that there is one biblical plan of salvation, either folks follow it or they don't.


Jerry what you want is someone to re affirm that you are right and so far no one has affirmed that for you - obviously this is the wrong forum to gain that affirmation.

[Scott]

Let me just add something else for everyone.

I've been around the block a few times - having been in the ministry for many years and in many functions both pastoral and non pastoral.  I've seen a lot of different doctrines and views come up and try to creep in to churches and the minds of the saints of God. I have found that the word of God is true and stands true. God is not wishy washy - he is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Whenever someone comes in with a ''different'' or ''new'' revelation, it needs to be consistant with the word of God or it is not of God.

All Roads do not lead to Heaven and sad to say there will be some mighty shocked people one day when the Lord returns for those who are alive and remain. Not all who call in the name of Jesus will be in heaven, some will have hearts that are not right with him. However - those who do make it  will have one thing in common..the biblical plan of salvation.

The most common method that folks use to ''prove their point'' is to attack the UPCI (ALJC, PAW etc...) or accuse us of denominational prejudice due to standards, traditions and stubbornness.

If that does not work, the next step is to point the finger condemn and let folks that do not agree with you know that they are not as holy, not as attuned to the spirit and refusing to accept this new revelation. 

The next step is name calling and insults and anger.

This discussion has run its course and it is obvious that this thread is simply an attempt to get us to believe and accept your new revelation, you had your opportunity and now it is time to move on to something else.

Have a great day.