[rant] :pound: [/rant]

[mini]

[rant]

I totally understand that some of the ways we as individuals perceive things may not be the way things really are.

So my view of my current situation could be totally wrong.

But I'm mad.

I have for the first 25 years of my life read only the KJV of the bible.  I tried not to dabble in the dark arts of other versions, and was spoon fed how evil any version of the bible was that didn't have KJV stamped on it.

As I study more now, I realize the folly of that KJV ONLY view.  I carry a KJV, I read the KJV, I preach out of the KJV, but I understand that I must know more about the word than just through this one version.

Anyone who has been around me for any length of time can attest to my general stupidity.  As a result, when I study out a verse I do a few things.

1.I read the verse.
2.I read the passage the verse is located in, to understand what the writer was talking about.
3.I mull it over in my 14 connecting brain cells, and take it to prayer.
4.Then I form a opinion about what I think its saying.
5.I read several versions of the bible and passage so I can understand if the other language the versions use further my understanding of the passage.
6.I study out what writers say in commentaries about the verse and passage.
7.Then finally, I come to a conclusion about the verse, and sometimes a message.

I do this so I can become well rounded in the verse as a whole.  No use getting up and proving that Judas hung himself and we should go and do likewise when thats NOT what it says.

For the past 8 months, I have read the English Standard Version (ESV) of the bible.  I like it, I have heard good things about it, and have been faithful to the reading of it daily.  Many passages I have read all my life suddenly take on a greater meaning because I am reading them outside my comfort zone (KJV).

And for those of you linked to me on Facebook, knows that in the midst of my random babblings of weirdness on there, I have been posting regularly for the past few weeks a verse or verses that strikes my interest.

Todays verses?

Proverbs 3:5-8 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil. It will be healing to your flesh and refreshment to your bones." (ESV)

Here is the KJV:

Proverbs 3:5-8 (King James Version)

5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

8It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

In the KJV, other than a few minor more modern language changes (thine to your), it has only a few changes that to me clarifies the meaning.

1.5) lean not unto (KJV) to do not lean on (ESV)
2.6) he shall direct thy paths (KJV) to  he will make straight your paths (ESV)
3.7) depart (KJV) turn away (ESV)
4.8 ) navel, marrow (KJV) to flesh, refreshment (ESV)

Maybe I am stupid, but to me it helps me understand better what the KJV is saying when I read the ESV.

So today, I put my verse up, and get several thank you's and likes from people who do not go to church, or go to a different denomination, and suddenly get a reply from a pentecostal:

"What happened to the KING JAMES VERSION?"

WHAT?  We, who should be in love with the word, and understand it better than anyone else, have the nerve to ask that?  And its not just one person.  If I was a betting man, I would bet that someone who reads this will only look at the words that were changed between the ESV and KJV and say because they changed words in the ESV, its a bad version.

I have had several people get rather angry (all fellow church people, none that attend my local church) when they found out I was reading the ESV.

WHY?!?!

I have been granted the opportunity to speak several times.  In the past 8 months, I have been able to speak directly from the word, because I was feeding myself daily.  I have encouraged kids and adults to read their bible.  I have constanly tried to encourage people to pick up the bible and read.  And yet, we get it in our minds that if that bible doesn't have KJV stamped on the spine, throw it out.

If you are simple like me and read the NIV, ESV, etc., keep reading!  If you are reading the KJV, keep reading!  But don't be so buried in tradition of ONLY KJV that you can't see the forest for the trees.  Don't get upset because I am reading the word of God. 

There is a BBQ place here in town that has on their sign out front:  Best BBQ in town.  No brag, just fact.  I have preached some of the most powerful messages I have ever preached, prayed some of the most powerful prayers I have ever prayed, and it is all because my understanding has been broadened.  And that ain't no brag.  Its just fact.

Granted, there are some versions that I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for.  Research out what you read out of daily.  I did.

But read, and don't get mad at me for sharing the word.

[/rant]

[SippinTea]

WOOT!!!! Well said, Mini!!

That is MAJOR pet peeve of mine. Yes, I was raised on the KJV... yes, I still love the poetry of it... BUT...

If I, who was raised on KJV don't understand a lot of what I'm reading in there, then how in the world are my un-churched, English-as-a-second-language friends supposed to understand it?!? So not only are they supposed to be learning English, they're supposed to learn archaic English as well. *insert major eye roll here*

Is the point to get the Message across? or to preserve the king's English?

I, for one, would rather understand what I'm reading - even if it isn't perhaps the most accurate translation - than feel totally in the dark, and completely stupid, because I don't get what the passage is saying.

And it's all very well for people to say "Pray for understanding" but... ... we live on earth, not heaven, and I'm kinda limited here with one very small, feeble brain.

I'm so sick of dealing with people who can't see past the end of their nose, and cling to the KJV with a death grip... and pull completely ludicrous conclusions from the text because they don't understand what it's saying.

Don't get me wrong, I love the KJV, but my friends who are stuck there seem to be missing something vital.

GO, MINI!! I like this rant.

[Sis]

As I said I like the KJV best because that's what I've been reading since I got my first Bible at 6-years-old. But at last count, we have 27 Bibles around here in many different versions. When we were first in church, we got a parallel Bible with four translations in it. They were even across, so you could check out a passge or a phrase you didn't understand.

Funny story, I took a Bible as Literature class in college, and they used another version. I had to keep checking it with the King James version to see what they were talking about. LOL

I had never heard that other versions were evil and not to be read. Ever!  That's just stupid. I was told to watch and compare some transalations to make sure they weren't too far away from what was really meant. Like some versions cut out the end of Mark 16. But I guess some people don't think so.

[Sis]

I went back to look Mini, I didn't say Why not the KJV, I said what's wrong with the KJV because Ruby "appeared" to not like it. But after what Sarah said, I see what she meant.

[mini]

I.  Am.  Confused.  Very, very confused.

[SippinTea]

If my post somehow added to the general confusion, I'll try to clear it up...

There are times I love/like the KJV.
There are times I do not love/like the KJV.

It all depends on where/how/why it's being used.

I love the KJV for the poetry, for the 'stability' factor present when I read it. It reminds me of how God's Word endures.

I do not like KJV when it's being used in settings with new believers, or with people who are already struggling with English.

For the most part, I don't like it in youth classes or children's classes. But like I said... it depends on the why and how of it's being used.

My opinion only. One size doesn't fit all when it comes to Bible translations.

[mini]

On a side note, first a rant then a general state of chaos!  Sweeet!  Im multi-talented!

[SippinTea]

I like having multi-talented friends. *grin*

[Sis]

On a side note, first a rant then a general state of chaos!  Sweeet!  Im multi-talented!

You certainly are. Confusion cleared up? Now on to bigger and better things. Mini, have you waxed lately? 

[BeccaBoo]

Good rant.

[Sis]

On a side note, first a rant then a general state of chaos!  Sweeet!  Im multi-talented!

You certainly are. Confusion cleared up? Now on to bigger and better things. Mini, have you waxed lately? 

No answer? Ok, Sis gets Becca to go wax mini's legs again!

[EricShane]

Oh my Goodness, what an Awesome Post and great Example Mini!!! I totally Agree with you!!!!

When reading that scripture in the ESV version I read it, and was like.. "thats a good scripture"

and when I read it in KJV, I 'felt it' I was like "Wow.. that is so Moving."

[RainbowJingles]

[BeccaBoo]

I aint waxing his legs...

[Sis]

I aint waxing his legs...

You just hold him down!  We'll get er done.

[BeccaBoo]

[Sis]

Don't you mean

[BeccaBoo]

Yea...

Thats the one...

[Scott]

Back to the topic!   

Any way Bro. . . I have come to love the ''Message bible'' and have enjoyed the NIV for years.

When teaching bible studies or preaching / teaching in non pentecostal circles I use the NIV  most of the time. When I preach / teach I will use multiple versions; however one dear minister friend of mine told me that when I am preaching for him, I cannot use anything other than the KJV or the NKJV.

*shrug*

Luke 24

NIV

Luke 24

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

the Message

45 He went on to open their understanding of the Word of God, showing them how to read their Bibles this way.
46 He said, "You can see now how it is written that the Messiah suffers, rises from the dead on the third day,
47 and then a total life-change through the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed in his name to all nations - starting from here, from Jerusalem!
48 You're the first to hear and see it. You're the witnesses.
49 What comes next is very important: I am sending what my Father promised to you, so stay here in the city until he arrives, until you're equipped with power from on high

KJV

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high


Now lets go to Acts 2

KJV
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

NIV

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

the Message

37 Cut to the quick, those who were there listening asked Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers! Brothers! So now what do we do?"
38 Peter said, "Change your life. Turn to God and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, so your sins are forgiven. Receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is targeted to you and your children, but also to all who are far away - whomever, in fact, our Master God invites

[SippinTea]

You know, Scott... Sometime in the last year or so, I started picking up The Message more often. And I'm really enjoying it. I know it's a paraphrase, not a translation, so it's not perhaps as desirable for serious, in-depth study... but for just sitting down to read for devotional time and whatnot, it's been great. And it's really made me stop and think on numerous occasions because of its blunt, conversational tone.

[Scott]

You know, Scott... Sometime in the last year or so, I started picking up The Message more often. And I'm really enjoying it. I know it's a paraphrase, not a translation, so it's not perhaps as desirable for serious, in-depth study... but for just sitting down to read for devotional time and whatnot, it's been great. And it's really made me stop and think on numerous occasions because of its blunt, conversational tone.

I spent some time with Brother Andy Smith and he loves to preach from it - so I started using it more and more over the last 3 years or so.  It paraphrases or simply updates the english and can be fun to read.  It if makes it fun to read the bible, why do people flip out?

*shrug*

1 Sam 17  (Message)

4 A giant nearly ten feet tall stepped out from the Philistine line into the open, Goliath from Gath.
5 He had a bronze helmet on his head and was dressed in armor - 126 pounds of it!
6 He wore bronze shin guards and carried a bronze sword.
7 His spear was like a fence rail - the spear tip alone weighed over fifteen pounds. His shield bearer walked ahead of him.
8 Goliath stood there and called out to the Israelite troops, "Why bother using your whole army? Am I not Philistine enough for you? And you're all committed to Saul, aren't you? So pick your best fighter and pit him against me.
9 If he gets the upper hand and kills me, the Philistines will all become your slaves. But if I get the upper hand and kill him, you'll all become our slaves and serve us.
10 I challenge the troops of Israel this day. Give me a man. Let us fight it out together!

Now I love this part

11 When Saul and his troops heard the Philistine's challenge, they were terrified and lost all hope.
12 Enter David. He was the son of Jesse the Ephrathite from Bethlehem in Judah. Jesse, the father of eight sons, was himself too old to join Saul's army

WOW this story is getting fun


26 David, who was talking to the men standing around him, asked, "What's in it for the man who kills that Philistine and gets rid of this ugly blot on Israel's honor? Who does he think he is, anyway, this uncircumcised Philistine, taunting the armies of God-Alive?"
27 They told him what everyone was saying about what the king would do for the man who killed the Philistine.
28 Eliab, his older brother, heard David fraternizing with the men and lost his temper: "What are you doing here! Why aren't you minding your own business, tending that scrawny flock of sheep? I know what you're up to. You've come down here to see the sights, hoping for a ringside seat at a bloody battle!"
29 "What is it with you?" replied David. "All I did was ask a question."
30 Ignoring his brother, he turned to someone else, asked the same question, and got the same answer as before.


The story hasn't changed, the words make it a bit more exciting....


33 Saul answered David, "You can't go and fight this Philistine. You're too young and inexperienced - and he's been at this fighting business since before you were born."
34 David said, "I've been a shepherd, tending sheep for my father. Whenever a lion or bear came and took a lamb from the flock, 35 I'd go after it, knock it down, and rescue the lamb. If it turned on me, I'd grab it by the throat, wring its neck, and kill it.
36 Lion or bear, it made no difference - I killed it. And I'll do the same to this Philistine pig who is taunting the troops of God-Alive.
37 God, who delivered me from the teeth of the lion and the claws of the bear, will deliver me from this Philistine." Saul said, "Go. And God help you!"
38 Then Saul outfitted David as a soldier in armor. He put his bronze helmet on his head and belted his sword on him over the armor.
39 David tried to walk but he could hardly budge. David told Saul, "I can't even move with all this stuff on me. I'm not used to this." And he took it all off.



41 As the Philistine paced back and forth, his shield bearer in front of him, he noticed David.
42 He took one look down on him and sneered - a mere youngster, apple-cheeked and peach-fuzzed.
43 The Philistine ridiculed David. "Am I a dog that you come after me with a stick?" And he cursed him by his gods.
44 "Come on," said the Philistine. "I'll make roadkill of you for the buzzards. I'll turn you into a tasty morsel for the field mice."

Man I am starting to hate this Goliath guy...................

45 David answered, "You come at me with sword and spear and battle-ax. I come at you in the name of God-of-the-Angel-Armies, the God of Israel's troops, whom you curse and mock.
46 This very day God is handing you over to me. I'm about to kill you, cut off your head, and serve up your body and the bodies of your Philistine buddies to the crows and coyotes. The whole earth will know that there's an extraordinary God in Israel.
47 And everyone gathered here will learn that God doesn't save by means of sword or spear. The battle belongs to God - he's handing you to us on a platter!"
48 That roused the Philistine, and he started toward David. David took off from the front line, running toward the Philistine.
49 David reached into his pocket for a stone, slung it, and hit the Philistine hard in the forehead, embedding the stone deeply. The Philistine crashed, facedown in the dirt.
50 That's how David beat the Philistine - with a sling and a stone. He hit him and killed him. No sword for David!
51 Then David ran up to the Philistine and stood over him, pulled the giant's sword from its sheath, and finished the job by cutting off his head. When the Philistines saw that their great champion was dead, they scattered, running for their lives

nothing in the story was changed by not using the KJV

[Sis]

the Message

45 He went on to open their understanding of the Word of God, showing them how to read their Bibles this way.

They didn't have Bibles back then.

NIV

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"

the Message

37 Cut to the quick, those who were there listening asked Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers! Brothers! So now what do we do?"

You think People understand "cut to the quick" better than "Cut to the heart?"   Do they know where the  quick is? 

[EricShane]

i just cant even understand the other translations, the way I understand KJV, Ive always figured the Spirit helps you understand more when you read the word.. - so, I dont know if its that or if Im just Used to KJV - I know, I dont have to change a scripture in the bible to fit a modern way.


Oh.. btw.. I heard some man say once "Noah, went out to the land with the KJV Bible preaching to all the people when the flood was coming!" lol

[Sis]

Was he serious or kidding? 

I know what you mean, Eric. Like I said, I always have to compare the translations to the KJV to see if I can understand it better. I'm just used to the language in the KJV for the most part, and sometimes it IS easier than the translations. Sometimes it's just written plainer in KJV. But I still think it's stupid for anyone to say KJV or nothing. *Shakes head*

[EricShane]

well.. I always was raised to believe KJV or nothing.. but, before I had 'nothing' I would probably read another translation. *grin*

and.. Yes he was serious