http://www.facebook.com/mikehuckabee?ref=stream
I believe we'll all someday be judged by God. But should a judge here on Earth have the power to order us to church? Oklahoma District Judge Michael Norman set off a nationwide outcry after he sentenced 17-year-old Tyler Alred to attend church for 10 years. The teenager was convicted of manslaughter in the death of a friend who was riding in his car when Tyler hit a tree after drinking alcohol.
He said he wanted to change his life. His parents agreed with the sentence. And his attorney said it would save him, while prison would destroy his life. So the judge agreed. But the ACLU calls it a clear violation of the First Amendment ban on government forcing a religion on citizens. Judge Norman is standing by his ruling.
A lot of people have asked my view on this. Personally, the churchgoer and former pastor in me thinks that spending some time in church would do that boy a world of good. But the Constitutionalist in me actually has to side with the ACLU this time. There's something about any government official ordering someone to attend church as punishment that doesn't pass the smell test. And before you send me hate mail, just consider how you'd feel if the judge had ordered a defendant to attend a mosque for 10 years.
What do you guys think of this? I kinda tend to agree with my former governor. Don't think it harms the kid, but I'm not so sure I like the government "ordering" someone to attend church, for the same reasons Huckabee listed.....
Right. It could lead to who knows what other kind of punishments. What if they forced you to let your child do something that was against your beliefs?
I agree.
I was talking about something similiar w/ my sister yesterday. We were talking about how some things ONLY work if they are done through God. Any other implementation of things that seem good but are done outside of an authentic Apostolic way always fail.
The governmental system and leaders we have now are not Godly and thus do not have the integrity to keep what seems like a right thing, in the right perspective w/o corrupting it.
I would go ballistic if my child was ordered to attend a mosque for 10 yrs.
Agreed. But perhaps he could have been offered a choice between two things? Such as... 20 yrs in prison, or 10 yrs of going to church? :updown:
:beret:
I know this is exstreamly old...but I've been away for a bit.
I've learned that despite how I see the Bible, my Government was not established upon that, but it was once established on the Constitution... and this is a Violation of the First Amendment and of Common sense. Church isnt a punishment... at least it shouldnt be :-)
It does violate the establishment clause as currently defined. Reason being that by sending him to that church, that court is establishing THAT church a Government sanctioned, thus leaving out other groups and/or religions.
Example: If he is sent to First Baptist, the judge is therefore establishing THAT church as Government sanctioned and the Pentecostal church, Buddhist temple and Islamic Mosque would have a cause of action in a court of law.
On the flip side... Cool!
Even if in the ruling the individual was given the choice of 'church of their own choosing of the religion of their own choosing' wouldn't that still be a violation of the establishment clause? Because that would still exclude the option of no church for the atheists, well untill recently. Now they have a couple of attempted atheist 'mega un-churches' that even give certificates for unbaptism/debaptism (i've seen pictures of each floating around).
I know that Jesus said to compel them to come, but this is pushing it. :biglaugh:
Quote from: BroTrey on December 13, 2013, 05:51:04 PM
Even if in the ruling the individual was given the choice of 'church of their own choosing of the religion of their own choosing' wouldn't that still be a violation of the establishment clause? Because that would still exclude the option of no church for the atheists, well until recently. Now they have a couple of attempted atheist 'mega un-churches' that even give certificates for unbaptism/debaptism (i've seen pictures of each floating around).
I know that Jesus said to compel them to come, but this is pushing it. :biglaugh:
The establishment clause prevents the ''state'' from ''establishing'' a religion. Since the root basis of the Establishment clause has its roots in 16th and 17th Century Europe: ie. England where the ''Church of England'' was set as the "official state church'' and in France, Spain and Italy the Catholic church was the main church.
Had the judge worded it differently, perhaps referring the man to his choice of a church or ''civic'' group such as A.A. or M.A.D.; the situation would be easier to digest.
We Christians Fear the ACLU too often, but the fact remains that the ACLU has many times come to the aid of Churches and there have been UPCI churches that were defended by the ACLU in the past. (Jails excluding Acts 2:38 preachers from being chaplains)
Also...if I was "forced" to go to church, it wouldn't necessarily save me. You have to come to your own decision about salvation and the need for God. Just attending a church for ten years does not save someone. That choice to be saved or rather the realization that you are lost has to come from within your own self and you have to make the choices accordingly. Just cause you warm a pew for 10 years wont save you...I know lots of people who do that and are not saved and most don't claim to be.