Anti-gay marriage answer 'Cost me my crown'

[EricShane]

i know.. im wondering what his point is.. I cant tell if hes being the 'nice helpful honest christian' or the 'Caniving sinical christian' lol.. either way about it..

It doesnt matter.. I couldnt care less about Gay Marriage wether its right or wrong..

[BenJammin]

It's that exact lackadaisical attitude that will undermine any attempt to teach morals and values to the next generation.

And that's exactly why we should care a great deal about these things...

[EricShane]

Okay then.. You guys worry about all that stuff.. Ill just keep doing what Praying ive started and keep trying to move up and do better for myself.

[bishopnl]

nate why does it matter what eric thinks of homosexuality especially if you are so grounded in your own ideas and his views wouldn't persuade you either way?

Because based on his comments, I'd just like to know where he stands. 

I believe homosexuality is a sin.  And I believe supporting or excusing homosexual behavior is a sin.  Based on some of the commentary given here, I wasn't sure whether Eric felt the same.  It's not a matter of "persuasion of views"...I just like to know where a person is coming from.

i know.. im wondering what his point is.. I cant tell if hes being the 'nice helpful honest christian' or the 'Caniving sinical christian' lol.. either way about it..

  I'm not sure what is meant here.  I'm not trying to help you or be cynical either one.  I just want to know what you believe about homosexuality, so I can understand where you are coming from.  I have no problem saying, unequivocally, that homosexual behavior is a sin, and I do not believe that anyone who supports or practices homosexual behavior is saved.  It was unclear to me if you felt this way, so I asked for clarification's sake. 

[Chérie]

hypothetical question for nate -

what if a person were homosexual but stopped or never engaged in that activity? would they still be in sin?

[BenJammin]

Is that anything like being a murderer but never having actually killed anyone?

[mesipie]

then i think they are trying to overcome...but as long as they still have those feelings/desires, i think they need to pray for deliverance..

[bishopnl]

hypothetical question for nate -

what if a person were homosexual but stopped or never engaged in that activity? would they still be in sin?

As Ben points out, the hypothetical doesn't hold up.  I don't consider someone to be a homosexual unless they act upon those desires.  A person who struggles with homosexual impulses but overcomes them wouldn't be any more of a sinner than the person who struggles to overcome fornication and does so.  But just like a person isn't a fornicator until they fornicate, why would I consider someone to be a homosexual who doesn't engage in homosexual activity?

[Chérie]

you can be heterosexual and not engage in "heterosexual activity" doesn't the same apply with homosexuals?

[Sis]

Maybe not. Maybe asexual until they start.

[BenJammin]

you can be heterosexual and not engage in "heterosexual activity" doesn't the same apply with homosexuals?

This is exactly the point Nate was making.  If you are heterosexual and don't engage in immoral sexual activity - regardless how much your tempted - there is no sin involved.  You are just a straight person trying to keep from straying.  Same applies to the homosexual.  You can have homosexual tendencies, but unless you actually engage in sexual activity there is no sin.

However, Jesus said in Matthew 5:28, "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."  The same could be said of the homosexual.  If he (or she) looks upon someone of the same sex to lust after them, they've already sinned.  It's as important for the homosexual to refrain from lust as it is the heterosexual.

[EricShane]

well.. the moral of the story today is.. Either way about it, its a sin to lust after anybody, animal, mineral or vegetable.. lol whatever..

[Chérie]

i find myself in a conundrum. politically i support gay rights. spiritually i don't align myself with the conservative mainstream, but neither do i condone homosexual activity... for me, it is what it is. their sin is no greater than mine. however, the church and many christians in general, view homosexual sin as the ultimate transgression against God.

[Sis]

Sexual sin is among the hardest to overcome. And I don't know of too many people who hold sexual sins to be worse than any other sin except to say it's so hard to overcome, many fail.

[Melody]

honestly I do not know many if anyone who thinks it's a worse sin but more along the lines as a more dangerous because it is a powerful stronghold.  That doesn't make it worse, but like Sis. said, harder.  And it seems while there is a lot of hiding or shame with sin in general, nowadays it seems that there is a stronger boldness and violent demeanor with those that defend homosexuality.  It's like they are the top of coolness as long as they are unchallenged but hate comes out the woodwork when someone comes along that doesn't acknowledge it's ok.

I don't know though cause culture, enviroment, and generation all play into our perspectives.

I support human rights period.  But not special treatment for something so vile.  I literally don't care if the government recognizes my marriage for tax breaks or insurance, it's more a moral/religious thing.

[bishopnl]

i find myself in a conundrum. politically i support gay rights. spiritually i don't align myself with the conservative mainstream, but neither do i condone homosexual activity... for me, it is what it is. their sin is no greater than mine. however, the church and many christians in general, view homosexual sin as the ultimate transgression against God.

I don't believe the state has any authority over an institution such as marriage.  I also don't believe that two homosexuals marrying is a legitimate marriage in the eyes of God, no matter what the state says.  States should not dabble in such issues, much less cram down someone's throat the idea that something is legitimate regardless of their belief system. 

And the last part of the quote is a strawman.  No one here is arguing that. 

[BenJammin]

Sexual sin is what it is.  It is something that I think all of us (some more than others, perhaps) have struggled with to some extent.  My sister is an avowed lesbian, but I have never seen her sins as more potent or damning than some of the things I've done over the years.

As Sis said, sexual sins are the most difficult to overcome.  I know that in my personal struggle (not homosexual sin, btw), I have sometimes reached such a level of despair that it seemed as though there was absolutely no hope for me.  I often liken the struggle against sexual sin and temptation to a man drowning in the open ocean, both hands tied behind his back and no land in sight.  It's like you're struggling, trying to keep your head above water and having to use your entire reserve of strength because you have no assistance from any quarter, but the waves are constantly washing over you and there is simply nothing on which to get footing.  It is, very literally, a struggle for your very (spiritual) life.

So, when I hear someone like EricShane, who has such a nonchalant attitude about such a vital topic, it gives me cause to be concerned.  Because while he may have never struggled with sexual sin and temptation and the despair that comes with it, there are many that have and continue to do so.

[EricShane]

So, when I hear someone like EricShane, who has such a nonchalant attitude about such a vital topic, it gives me cause to be concerned.  Because while he may have never struggled with sexual sin and temptation and the despair that comes with it, there are many that have and continue to do so.

[Chérie]

i find myself in a conundrum. politically i support gay rights. spiritually i don't align myself with the conservative mainstream, but neither do i condone homosexual activity... for me, it is what it is. their sin is no greater than mine. however, the church and many christians in general, view homosexual sin as the ultimate transgression against God.

I don't believe the state has any authority over an institution such as marriage.  I also don't believe that two homosexuals marrying is a legitimate marriage in the eyes of God, no matter what the state says.  States should not dabble in such issues, much less cram down someone's throat the idea that something is legitimate regardless of their belief system. 

And the last part of the quote is a strawman.  No one here is arguing that. 

whatever nate. i was not presenting a strawman argument. i was addressing a mindset found within the christian faith, a mindset that i have heard with my own ears from the pulpit, and a mindset that is found within prominent christian mainstream media. the statements made previously by ben drive my point home. all sin can cause despair, not just certain sexual sins - look at the drug addicts.

i do agree with your ideas on state legislating marriage, its not the governments role to do so. however many do not hold that view, and they want the government to sanction "their" rights, while disenfranchising others. the state shouldn't pick and choose what is legal between two consenting adults.

[bishopnl]

whatever nate. i was not presenting a strawman argument. i was addressing a mindset found within the christian faith, a mindset that i have heard with my own ears from the pulpit, and a mindset that is found within prominent christian mainstream media. the statements made previously by ben drive my point home. all sin can cause despair, not just certain sexual sins - look at the drug addicts.

i do agree with your ideas on state legislating marriage, its not the governments role to do so. however many do not hold that view, and they want the government to sanction "their" rights, while disenfranchising others. the state shouldn't pick and choose what is legal between two consenting adults.

I know that that mindset is to be found among some Christians.  But no one here has asserted this.  And I don't think the mindset is quite as prevalent as you describe, but again, since that's not an issue in this discussion, I'm not going to argue about it.  I don't think Ben is in anyway indicative of this, however...I think the point is just being made that some sins have a greater pull, consequences, etc. than others.  In a spiritual sense all sin is death, but in a more natural sense, some sins are more addictive and harder to break free from than others.  Drug abuse and lust certainly would both fall into this category, and I doubt Ben would dispute that.

And the state picks and chooses what is done between two legal, consenting adults all the time.  And since the state is intent on enforcing a view of morality, it is hard for me to blame people for fighting for THEIR view of morality to be enforced.  I don't support gay marriage, I support the state staying out of marriage altogether.

[Sis]

I've seen this type of thing on these sites for a long time. We are discussing one subject, so someone thinks we think this subject is worse than any other.

A preacher preaches on one subject a few times, he's told that he is thinking that one sin is worse than others. That's just the subject at hand. Not all sins.  I've seen pastors preach more on one thing tban others because there's a problem in THAT church/city similar to what they're preaching about. That doesn't mean he's thinking that sin is worse than others. I may just mean he's discussed it with someone and it was on his mind, or there's a problem like it in his city or even his church and he's dealing with it. 

Most of the time we don't know what others are thinking. We humans like to project our feelings into others and say that's what they think.

[EricShane]

I've seen this type of thing on these sites for a long time. We are discussing one subject, so someone thinks we think this subject is worse than any other.

A preacher preaches on one subject a few times, he's told that he is thinking that one sin is worse than others. That's just the subject at hand. Not all sins.  I've seen pastors preach more on one thing tban others because there's a problem in THAT church/city similar to what they're preaching about. That doesn't mean he's thinking that sin is worse than others. I may just mean he's discussed it with someone and it was on his mind, or there's a problem like it in his city or even his church and he's dealing with it. 

Most of the time we don't know what others are thinking. We humans like to project our feelings into others and say that's what they think.

that IS true.. i have to watch myself on that..

[Sis]

I can't name how many times I have heard, "You think you are......"   so great, important, better than me because you're thin, etc. And I never had such a thought. We need to ask what people think and not tell them. 

[BenJammin]

...the statements made previously by ben drive my point home. all sin can cause despair, not just certain sexual sins - look at the drug addicts...

...I don't think Ben is in anyway indicative of this, however...I think the point is just being made that some sins have a greater pull, consequences, etc. than others.  In a spiritual sense all sin is death, but in a more natural sense, some sins are more addictive and harder to break free from than others.  Drug abuse and lust certainly would both fall into this category, and I doubt Ben would dispute that...

OK, Danielle, let me clarify this for you.  I don't think that the bonds of sexual sin are any greater than those of drug addiction.  I have never dealt with drug addiction or alcoholism in my own life, so I don't have the advantage of personal experience.  I have however, watched the struggles of some of those in my family as they dealt with their addictions to drugs and alcohol.  Although I have no personal experience in these arenas, I believe that those bonds are at least as strong as those of sexual sin.

One thing I would like to point out here is that drug addiction or alcoholism, by and large, is extremely difficult to keep secret.  Those things of a sexual nature, on the other hand, are very easily hidden.  THAT is what makes the difference, IMOSHO...

[Chérie]

Most of the time we don't know what others are thinking. We humans like to project our feelings into others and say that's what they think.

so you're projecting on me now...

I support the state staying out of marriage altogether.

i completely agree with your observation. i think its ludaricrous that when we get married we have to buy a license to be legitimate. marriage is between two people, not the state. the government can't/shouldn't legislate a commitment two people have for one another.