Godplace/Mission238 forums

So Folks are you happy with the results of who won for President? If you want to share how you feel please do so

I choose to be happy no matter the outcomes.. :)

I am not amused.

Amused...?

Quote from: MelodyB on November 05, 2008, 07:59:20 AM
I am not amused.

*L*


Me neither.  ......... then again, I wouldn't be amused if McCain had won either.  When the battle is to try and elect the lesser evil, "evil" still wins no matter who gets elected. 

:sadbounce:

I am not so much happy as cautiously satisfied.  I believe that the better candidate won...but these times are far too serious for me to be celebrating too much.

I am really just more or less shocked. To be honest, even though I was rooting for Obama, I held onto a certain amount of caution. I'd hear Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews talk about how it was going to be a landslide victory for Obama. I really did not see him winning a big victory in the South - and he didn't.

So I'm happy, but still cautious. After seeing the Palin rallies - I've come to realize that there are alot of crazies in America....

I am not happy with the outcome of the election.  But I am happy with in Whom I know I trust.  And I am satisfied that God now expects me to pray that God leads Obama and gives him the wisdom and the courage to do what he has to do.  Remember the President is nothing but a person.  God is now and will always be in control.  To those who feel that they lost the election and those who feel they won, let me say it is time to forget which party I am with and remember I am a child of God.  We must stand together for unity and pray for God to Bless America.   

Quote from: Chérie on November 05, 2008, 03:25:51 PMSo I'm happy, but still cautious. After seeing the Palin rallies - I've come to realize that there are alot of crazies in America....

Ditto for the Obama rallies.  People are like sheep.  You can lead them to the edge of a cliff and throw a little green grass over the edge, then watch them fall to their doom.

Running a good campaign and being a good candidate, doesn't a good president make.  Considering Obama raised $600,000,000 compared to the $84,000,000 (7:1 ratio) that McCain was entitled to due to accepting the public financing (since Obama promised to, then pulled a "gotcha"), Obama should have won by 25% points.  Tells me that had Obama kept his campaign finance pledge, it would have been a much closer election and would probably have gone the other way.

Now, with a Democrat super-majority (House/Senate/President) the Dems will be able to ramrod any legislation they choose - w/ or w/o the Repubs help.  We'll see what the electorate says in 2 or 3 yrs when Obama is unable to deliver on all of his promises because the country just can't justify or afford the huge increases to the budget.  Of course, they will most likely go ahead and lower that "middle-class income" threshold even further so that taxes can be raised on an even greater portion of the population.

QuoteTells me that had Obama kept his campaign finance pledge, it would have been a much closer election and would probably have gone the other way.

I've got to disagree.  Even with the money disparity, John McCain was winning until the financial meltdown.  Even though he ran a sloppy campaign, I think he would have had a good chance of winning except for the financial crash.  He was pretty much killed by circumstances beyond his control.

People didn't know where to affix the blame, so they pinned it on Bush, and that trickled down to the McCain camp.

Quote from: Brother Dad on November 05, 2008, 03:38:35 PM
I am not happy with the outcome of the election.  But I am happy with in Whom I know I trust.  And I am satisfied that God now expects me to pray that God leads Obama and gives him the wisdom and the courage to do what he has to do.  Remember the President is nothing but a person.  God is now and will always be in control.  To those who feel that they lost the election and those who feel they won, let me say it is time to forget which party I am with and remember I am a child of God.  We must stand together for unity and pray for God to Bless America.   

That is right!

ah!  I thought it was a general question.  I can't change my vote now!  I am not happy with the outcome but in the long run, it matters little.

I really thought McCain was going to win, so I was shocked. It felt really weird to me when Obama won I think maybe because we have had 8 years of President Bush, and I think things are going to be really different.

Anyway, I pray and hope Obama turns out to be a good president.

As a moderate, I was for McCain.  However, I can't help but enjoy the historic significance
of this election as well.

I believe now, as I always have, that this gentleman will hold the presidency, but the Lord
still holds the throne. 

I believe, as Mike Huckabee stated on his show, that regardless of how I voted, this man will
be my president.  He deserves the honor and respect that the office brings, just like our previous
presidents (including President Bush and President Clinton).  He deserves my support and the benefit
of any doubt as he tackles unprecedented challenges.  He deserves my fervent prayer, as every election
brings us that much closer to the end time tribulation, which appears nearly upon us. 

Quote from: drummr on November 11, 2008, 02:30:18 AM
As a moderate, I was for McCain.  However, I can't help but enjoy the historic significance
of this election as well.

I believe now, as I always have, that this gentleman will hold the presidency, but the Lord
still holds the throne. 

I believe, as Mike Huckabee stated on his show, that regardless of how I voted, this man will
be my president.  He deserves the honor and respect that the office brings, just like our previous
presidents (including President Bush and President Clinton).  He deserves my support and the benefit
of any doubt as he tackles unprecedented challenges.  He deserves my fervent prayer, as every election
brings us that much closer to the end time tribulation, which appears nearly upon us. 

I feel the same way. We should support and pray for our president.

Quote from: drummr on November 11, 2008, 02:30:18 AM

I believe now, as I always have, that this gentleman will hold the presidency, but the Lord
still holds the throne. 

I believe, as Mike Huckabee stated on his show, that regardless of how I voted, this man will
be my president.  He deserves the honor and respect that the office brings, just like our previous
presidents (including President Bush and President Clinton).  He deserves my support and the benefit
of any doubt as he tackles unprecedented challenges.  He deserves my fervent prayer, as every election
brings us that much closer to the end time tribulation, which appears nearly upon us. 

Amen, I don't have to like him as President, but I must respect him as President and pray for God to lead him.

Quote from: drummr on November 11, 2008, 02:30:18 AMegardless of how I voted, this man will be my president.  He deserves the honor and respect that the office brings, just like our previous presidents (including President Bush and President Clinton).  He deserves my support and the benefit of any doubt as he tackles unprecedented challenges.

Funny how  the libs (not insinuating you are...) will say this about Obama, but had McCain been elected they would have held a diametrically opposed opinion.

They weren't showing Bush much respect the last couple of years, did they?

Quote from: Sis on November 11, 2008, 09:05:14 AM
They weren't showing Bush much respect the last couple of years, did they?

Some never did, but we must show that we will do what is right no matter who is in the White House.  Because our leader is God.

Sorry, but I don't ever give any government official the benefit of the doubt, be they Democrat or Republican. And I'll pray for Obama, the same as any president.  But I won't give him my support unless he does something I actually support, and based on his record and his rhetoric, there aren't many moves he's going to make that I will support. 

And Sis, you're right.  It's hilarious to me to see how liberals everywhere are crying for "national unity" and saying how we've got to get behind Obama and blah blah blah....the same liberals who claimed Bush was the personification of pure evil and spent the last 8 years fighting his every move.

This is why I've lost any faith that I ever had in the GOP.  Liberals believe that conservatism is a corrupt and immoral philosophy that needs to be fought whether they are in the minority or the majority, but for some reason, Republicans never get it.  They never feel the same about liberalism.  When Clinton nominated Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the Supreme Court, she was confirmed by a 96-3 vote...despite the fact that she was a liberal whack job.  Yet when Reagan nominated Robert Bork in 1987, just 6 years before that, he was voted down 52-48, and when Bush nominated Sam Alito, he was only confirmed by a 52-48 vote.  If you look at the amount of federal judges confirmed the last 8 years and compare it to previous administrations, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. 

Now, after 8 years of liberal Republicanism, it appears that the GOP is again just going to roll over and give a big thumbs up to whatever the liberal agenda is.  I'm sick of both parties, because both, to one degree or another, are supportive of a political philosophy that is morally bankrupt and not in any way constitutionally sound.  As long as Obama adheres to this philosophy, he is wholly unworthy of my support or my trust, regardless of the office he holds.

I have to say that I believe the Lord was apolitical, as he knew who was
really in charge.  I would argue that, largely, Christians should be apolitical as
well, since our battle is not against this flesh and blood but against the principalities
and powers who will ultimately do the will of God anyway. 

I believe that all principality and power is granted authority from the Lord, to do
good or evil according to His ultimate plan.  All of the presidents will stand before
God to answer for their use of the power granted to them by God.  While we may be part
of that judgment in that day, I do not believe we are part of it today.

I worry about hyper-partisanship and hyper-criticism of our leaders for our own sakes. 
This is not directed at anyone but myself, but this is what I believe:

2 Peter 2

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the
    unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government.
      Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil  of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things
      that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time.
      Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

This passage worries me because I know that even with great wisdom, there is not one of us who
can know enough to make a pure judgment.  Here's another:

Jude
8  Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9  Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,
    durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Michael, the most powerful angel, did not dare bring accusations against the devil.  Why is that?
Because the devil was given dominion over certain things and Michael was actually treading on his authorized turf.
The Lord was the only one who had the power to override that authority.

I agree with Bishop.  I can pray for a president (and "support him" in that manner), but I'm not going to give him my overall support just because he happens to be president.

I mean, am I supposed to suddenly support him in his attempts to implement the very things I was against him for before he was even elected?  Am I supposed to suddenly support the very things I have stood against, just so that I can say that I am "supporting" the current president??

That's crazy!  I'll continue to stand against his policies and his political platform, just as I have since he first announced his candidacy.  The fact that he has now been elected is not going to cause me to turn and "support" that which I stand against.  My political ideology - my "platform", if you will - is still the same, no matter who gets elected.

I think, ultimately, we are saying the same thing.

I would not support a pro-abortion stance, for instance, because it is contrary
to the will of God.  I can disagree with policies, as I disagreed with the Iraq war,
without resorting to uninformed accusation. 

I am not going to stand against the president just because he is a member of a
party whose platform is composed of many things I disagree with, especially
given the fact that no political party represents the totality of my views. 

I understand that my views, while important to me, are not necessarily representative
of perfect wisdom, Christian or otherwise.  This is the benefit of the doubt that I
mentioned.  I've defended President Bush on the grounds that I possess a fraction
of the information that qualifies him to make certain decisions, good or bad.
I will observe, with great interest, the actions of our new president in addressing the
troubling issues of our day with the sure knowledge that certain things must happen for
the Lord to return.  Each new president has an extraordinary opportunity to stand on
the side of truth, or to be as Judas, a man for whom it would have been better not to
have been born.

Cliff,

We've had this discussion before ad nauseum.  I agree with your assessment that God does not side with political parties, and that leaders will stand before God to answer for the use of the power they had.

However, here is my issue with the implications given by the bolded part of the scriptures you quote.  It seems, and maybe I'm mistaken here, that you are saying that we are not to question government, because God has given them authority and we cannot "tread" on that turf, so to speak.

Dignities in those verses are interpeted by other translations as "celestial beings" and the government referred to is translated as power, dominion, or lordship.  These verses clearly aren't dealing with our earthly government, especially if you look at the context of the scriptures.  Clearly, the scripture is dealing with men who are speaking of the supernatural.  

Further, the earthly government we have is based on the Constitution, which is the "power" that is ordained by God in our earthly system.  The government must be in alignment with the Constitution.  If it isn't, it is the government, and not us, who is despising authority.  I refuse to put my trust in Obama and answer to God that I wasn't smart enough to give a pure judgement on his motives.  Judgement begins at the house of God.  If Obama is not in compliance with either scripture or the Constitution, how can I justify following him based on that kind of reasoning?  

QuoteI understand that my views, while important to me, are not necessarily representative
of perfect wisdom, Christian or otherwise.  This is the benefit of the doubt that I
mentioned.  I've defended President Bush on the grounds that I possess a fraction
of the information that qualifies him to make certain decisions, good or bad.

I just don't understand placing this kind of trust in man.  I believe we are too judge our leaders based on scripture and the Constitution, not blind faith.  Sorry, bro, I just can't follow you on this one.  If Obama suddenly reverts to a Constitutional point of view, I don't care if he has D or R next to his name.  But based on what I've seen so far, he rejects both scripture and the Constitution, and therefore is not worthy of my trust.

I think we are only to respect him not back him up in his quest to ruin this country.  I think that's what it means to pray for him, too.

I've seen presidents who stood for something, Bush Sr. comes to mind, but when he actually got into the office and found out what what it was about had to back-pedal on some things. I'm guessing there are some things that they won't know for sure until they're in the office.  The same as any other job, I guess.

I think God wants us to respect our elders, our leaders and those in authority, whether it be respecting JD because he's Scott's right-hand-man, or respecting the president. I wouldn't throw a mud ball at JD because he's a good dude.  :laughhard:

Quote from: Sis on November 11, 2008, 09:44:15 PM
I think God wants us to respect our elders, our leaders and those in authority, whether it be respecting JD because he's Scott's right-hand-man, or respecting the president. I wouldn't throw a mud ball at JD because he's a good dude.  :laughhard:

And don't you forget it!

:biglaugh:

Nate,

I really agree with you on pretty much every point, whether it seems that way or not.   :)

We certainly have a right to question our leaders on constitutional issues with the understanding
that if they fail in their responsibilities, we will vote for someone else.  I believe you illustrated this
earlier in your opinions about the current Republican administration that has enacted some of the
most liberal, socialist policies in memory.

My concern is centered more on the rancorous, bitter politics that have characterized our nation.
When someone says, "That man is not MY president" I just don't understand it.  This is my nation
and the president of this nation deserves the respect befitting the office.  My Lord has appointed
him leader of my nation and in so doing has placed him in authority over me.  Any disagreement should
be civil, and courteous.  Certainly any constitutional arguments can and should be presented succinctly
and courteously since we are Christians.

I think about the issues Jesus faced with the tyranny of Roman influence that was contrary to Jewish law.
He seemed much more focused on reaching individual souls than in the political process.  The zealots
wanted a strong messiah, a king of kings, to take up their political ideology.  Jesus said, "Render unto
Caesar that which is Caesars".  The Lord is coming soon and He is going to set all of this political nonsense
straight.  In the meantime, I want to be a christian in politics as well as practice.

Now, I cannot answer your contention that the dignities in these verses are only "celestial beings".  But even
if they are, these leaders are certainly extensions of the principalities and powers that we are speaking of.  

Ultimately it is scripture like the following that concerns me:

1 Peter 2:
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against
    you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

We honor our leaders because doing so honors God who is our true Master.  This means people we may disagree with
who have been made our masters.  

Very good

Quote from: jdcord on November 11, 2008, 10:08:28 PM

Quote from: Sis on November 11, 2008, 09:44:15 PM
I think God wants us to respect our elders, our leaders and those in authority, whether it be respecting JD because he's Scott's right-hand-man, or respecting the president. I wouldn't throw a mud ball at JD because he's a good dude.  :laughhard:

And don't you forget it!

:biglaugh:

Wasn't there something about gazpacho way back when?

Cliff,

I agree, to a degree, with most of the points you raise.  I do think we have not just a right, but a responsibility to hold our leaders to the Constitution which they have sworn to uphold.  And I do believe that as Christians, our allegiance is to Christ, and He is our first priority.

I won't delve too deeply into other thoughts I may have, because they'd probably be too radical for most people here.  ;)  Suffice it to say, I think that there is more that can be done than just vote for someone else when the government abuses the power of the Constitution.  (Note: I'm not advocating armed insurrection).  But I certainly think that the "dream of the Founders" that Obama referenced in his victory speech is embodied in the Declaration of Independence, and not in any political rhetoric we hear today.  

Barack Obama is the President.  Being president doesn't mean I have to support him, agree with him, or give him the benefit of the doubt.  And I'm not going too.  If he follows the Constitution, then he has my full support.  I'm not interested in unity for the sake of "doing away with bi-partisanship" or whatever other reasons people may have.  I don't believe in compromising my beliefs for the sake of unity.

And what's more, most of the same people who are echoing these sentiments of "support him" and "come together" are the same people who spent the last 8 years not just fighting, but demeaning, slandering, and reviling the current President.  I know you, Cliff, aren't included in that number, but there are a good number of people who are.  Those people are hypocrites.  They cannot seriously expect those of us who oppose Obama to do what they themselves would not do.

Nate,

I would say your arguments are fair enough.  I agree that the "come together" crowd are
hypocrites more often than not.  How much of an activist I would be hinges largely on how
my activism matches the will of God, especially in these times, likely the End of Days.
It seems like much of our political process is a distraction that has very little bearing on what
is of ultimate importance.

Thanks for the lively conversation.  :)

QuoteHow much of an activist I would be hinges largely on how
my activism matches the will of God, especially in these times, likely the End of Days.
It seems like much of our political process is a distraction that has very little bearing on what
is of ultimate importance.

Well the kind of change I think would be necessary isn't going to happen...but I like to argue the point, anyway.  ;)  I think the "change we need" isn't likely to come from any political party.   :grin:

I like to wait and see.

There are always many promises given during a campaign. Once in office, it's often harder than one might think to accomplish everything. Because as a normal citizen, and even just to a Senator or Rep., there just isn't any way they can possibly know what's coming up for them in that position. So with time, they'll figure it out.


I'll pray for him and the country. We definitely are going to need it, as things seem to be getting ever-so-chaotic.

Plus as a Senator, he didn't have access to National secrets like he will when in office.