Do You Believe In Aliens?

[Scott]

As I consider this subject, I then remember where we are and some of the entities that post here. Yup, I do believe in Space Aliens! 

[Sis]

Yes, Darth Vader!   

[M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ]

I think there is a possibility that life has formed on other planets.  What kind of life would be out there is hard to tell, in some cases it may be so alien to us we would not even recognize it as life if we saw it.  There has been evidence discovered that supports the hypothesis of microscopic life having existed on Mars at some time.  While our current technology isn't such that we have been able to detect intelligent life forms on other planets, I don't discount the possibility that there just may be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.  I think the probability of life forming on at least one other planet in the universe is too great to completely ignore.

[Melody]

I think the probability of life forming

so I take it you do not believe in the direct creation in Genesis?  To me, it would be what would be the probability of GOD creating life somewhere else? 

[M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ]

so I take it you do not believe in the direct creation in Genesis?  To me, it would be what would be the probability of GOD creating life somewhere else?

Since the formation of organic compounds from purely inorganic materials has been repeatedly demonstrated (22 different organic compounds in one experiment alone), the probability for abiogenesis occurring does exist.  Combine that with the fact that 90 different organic compounds (19 of which are found in life on Earth) have been discovered in a meteorite, the probability of life forming on any one of the billions of planets in the universe is high enough to be considered. 

[titushome]

Since the formation of organic compounds from purely inorganic materials has been repeatedly demonstrated (22 different organic compounds in one experiment alone), the probability for abiogenesis occurring does exist.

Source(s)?

[M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ]

Source(s)?

Miller-Urey (1952) is the most widely known experiment to produce organic compounds from inorganic material.   There have been many experiments since then, both replicating the same condition and expanding upon Miller-Urey's conditions.  Two sources are Here and Here.  You can also find more by doing a Google search for Miller-Urey.  Many of the sources found in that search will also give mention to experiments subsequent the Miller-Urey.

[titushome]

Miller-Urey (1952) is the most widely known experiment to produce organic compounds from inorganic material.   There have been many experiments since then, both replicating the same condition and expanding upon Miller-Urey's conditions.  Two sources are Here and Here.  You can also find more by doing a Google search for Miller-Urey.  Many of the sources found in that search will also give mention to experiments subsequent the Miller-Urey.

Yes, they produced organic compounds from inorganic material - big whoop.  All that means is both organic and inorganic material is composed of the same basic stuff.  It's not even in the same ballpark as producing life from non-life.  While organic compounds are necessary to life, they are not themselves alive.

Besides that, the conditions that had to be maintained in the Miller-Urey experiments weren't anything like what they believe conditions on Earth were like prior to the advent of life (according to them, anyway).  To quote from the article you sourced:

There has been a recent wave of skepticism concerning Miller's experiment because it is now believed that the early earth's atmosphere did not contain predominantly reductant molecules. Another objection is that this experiment required a tremendous amount of energy. While it is believed lightning storms were extremely common on the primitive Earth, they were not continuous as the Miller/Urey experiment portrayed. Thus it has been argued that while amino acids and other organic compounds may have been formed, they would not have been formed in the amounts which this experiment produced.

In other words, even to produce the organic compounds they did - let alone genuine life - they required highly controlled conditions unlike anything that might have occurred naturally.

[M‡¢ĦÆŁ Ҝ]

Yes, they produced organic compounds from inorganic material - big whoop.  All that means is both organic and inorganic material is composed of the same basic stuff.  It's not even in the same ballpark as producing life from non-life.  While organic compounds are necessary to life, they are not themselves alive.

But the ability to form organic compounds from inorganic materials shows that there is a probability for life to form from inorganic matter.

Besides that, the conditions that had to be maintained in the Miller-Urey experiments weren't anything like what they believe conditions on Earth were like prior to the advent of life (according to them, anyway).  To quote from the article you sourced:

I was not discussing life forming on earth.  The subject of the thread is life on other planets.  With the billions of planets in our vast universe, the probability of life forming on even one of them is high enough to be considered.

In other words, even to produce the organic compounds they did - let alone genuine life - they required highly controlled conditions unlike anything that might have occurred naturally.

We do not know what the conditions are on all of those planets out there.  If we take just one billion of them with one billion different sets of conditions, there is still the probability that one of them could be the proper setting for life to form.  Just the fact that the basic building blocks for life can form from inorganic material still leaves the probability that at least one of the other planets does have, or did have, life on it.

[titushome]

Yes, they produced organic compounds from inorganic material - big whoop.  All that means is both organic and inorganic material is composed of the same basic stuff.  It's not even in the same ballpark as producing life from non-life.  While organic compounds are necessary to life, they are not themselves alive.

But the ability to form organic compounds from inorganic materials shows that there is a probability for life to form from inorganic matter.

In some people's minds, perhaps.  Really, it's just wishful thinking to suppose these experiments show "a probability for life to form from inorganic matter."  It doesn't happen like that.

Besides that, the conditions that had to be maintained in the Miller-Urey experiments weren't anything like what they believe conditions on Earth were like prior to the advent of life (according to them, anyway).  To quote from the article you sourced:

I was not discussing life forming on earth.  The subject of the thread is life on other planets.  With the billions of planets in our vast universe, the probability of life forming on even one of them is high enough to be considered.

In other words, even to produce the organic compounds they did - let alone genuine life - they required highly controlled conditions unlike anything that might have occurred naturally.

We do not know what the conditions are on all of those planets out there.  If we take just one billion of them with one billion different sets of conditions, there is still the probability that one of them could be the proper setting for life to form.  Just the fact that the basic building blocks for life can form from inorganic material still leaves the probability that at least one of the other planets does have, or did have, life on it.

Point taken - I did have only planet Earth in mind, having forgotten the original topic of this thread.

Your points about life forming from inorganic matter on other planets, however, are still predicated on your first assertion, which is unproven and unprovable - and impossible.

[drumerboy]

I do think there's something out there.I drive a 18 wheeler for a living and i have seen some strange things in the sky.

[dnr1128]

you listen to george noory when you're driving?

[drumerboy]

no, i don't listen to George Noory, i listen to Glen Beck , Sean Hannity and such. was just making a comment on the things i've seen out there on the road...does make me wonder sometimes if there is life out there somewhere.

[Sis]

*Sis hums Twilight Zone theme*   

[dnr1128]

Just wondering...I listen to George quite a bit on podcast.  I spend alot of time driving to and from work in east texas, so coast shows keep me from getting too bored behind the wheel.

[Melody]

The Vatican must... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573806,00.html

VATICAN CITY —  E.T. phone Rome.

Four hundred years after it locked up Galileo for challenging the view that the Earth was the center of the universe, the Vatican has called in experts to study the possibility of extraterrestrial alien life and its implication for the Catholic Church.

"The questions of life's origins and of whether life exists elsewhere in the universe are very suitable and deserve serious consideration," said the Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, an astronomer and director of the Vatican Observatory.

Funes, a Jesuit priest, presented the results Tuesday of a five-day conference that gathered astronomers, physicists, biologists and other experts to discuss the budding field of astrobiology — the study of the origin of life and its existence elsewhere in the cosmos.

Funes said the possibility of alien life raises "many philosophical and theological implications" but added that the gathering was mainly focused on the scientific perspective and how different disciplines can be used to explore the issue.

Chris Impey, an astronomy professor at the University of Arizona, said it was appropriate that the Vatican would host such a meeting.

"Both science and religion posit life as a special outcome of a vast and mostly inhospitable universe," he told a news conference Tuesday. "There is a rich middle ground for dialogue between the practitioners of astrobiology and those who seek to understand the meaning of our existence in a biological universe."

Thirty scientists, including non-Catholics, from the U.S., France, Britain, Switzerland, Italy and Chile attended the conference, called to explore among other issues "whether sentient life forms exist on other worlds."

Funes set the stage for the conference a year ago when he discussed the possibility of alien life in an interview given prominence in the Vatican's daily newspaper.

The Church of Rome's views have shifted radically through the centuries since Italian philosopher Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1600 for speculating, among other ideas, that other worlds could be inhabited.

Scientists have discovered hundreds of planets outside our solar system — including 32 new ones announced recently by the European Space Agency. Impey said the discovery of alien life may be only a few years away.

"If biology is not unique to the Earth, or life elsewhere differs bio-chemically from our version, or we ever make contact with an intelligent species in the vastness of space, the implications for our self-image will be profound," he said.

This is not the first time the Vatican has explored the issue of extraterrestrials: In 2005, its observatory brought together top researchers in the field for similar discussions.

In the interview last year, Funes told Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano that believing the universe may host aliens, even intelligent ones, does not contradict a faith in God.

"How can we rule out that life may have developed elsewhere?" Funes said in that interview.

"Just as there is a multitude of creatures on Earth, there could be other beings, even intelligent ones, created by God. This does not contradict our faith, because we cannot put limits on God's creative freedom."

Funes maintained that if intelligent beings were discovered, they would also be considered "part of creation."

The Roman Catholic Church's relationship with science has come a long way since Galileo was tried as a heretic in 1633 and forced to recant his finding that the Earth revolves around the sun. Church teaching at the time placed Earth at the center of the universe.

Today top clergy, including Funes, openly endorse scientific ideas like the Big Bang theory as a reasonable explanation for the creation of the universe. The theory says the universe began billions of years ago in the explosion of a single, super-dense point that contained all matter.

Earlier this year, the Vatican also sponsored a conference on evolution to mark the 150th anniversary of Charles Darwin's "The Origin of Species."

The event snubbed proponents of alternative theories, like creationism and intelligent design, which see a higher being rather than the undirected process of natural selection behind the evolution of species.

Still, there are divisions on the issues within the Catholic Church and within other religions, with some favoring creationism or intelligent design that could make it difficult to accept the concept of alien life.

Working with scientists to explore fundamental questions that are of interest to religion is in line with the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI, who has made strengthening the relationship between faith and reason a key aspect of his papacy.

Recent popes have been working to overcome the accusation that the church was hostile to science — a reputation grounded in the Galileo affair.

In 1992, Pope John Paul II declared the ruling against the astronomer was an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension."

The Vatican Museums opened an exhibit last month marking the 400th anniversary of Galileo's first celestial observations.

Tommaso Maccacaro, president of Italy's national institute of astrophysics, said at the exhibit's Oct. 13 opening that astronomy has had a major impact on the way we perceive ourselves.

"It was astronomical observations that let us understand that Earth (and man) don't have a privileged position or role in the universe," he said. "I ask myself what tools will we use in the next 400 years, and I ask what revolutions of understanding they'll bring about, like resolving the mystery of our apparent cosmic solitude."

The Vatican Observatory has also been at the forefront of efforts to bridge the gap between religion and science. Its scientist-clerics have generated top-notch research and its meteorite collection is considered one of the world's best.

The observatory, founded by Pope Leo XIII in 1891, is based in Castel Gandolfo, a lakeside town in the hills outside Rome where the pope has his summer residence. It also conducts research at an observatory at the University of Arizona, in Tucson.

[Stevebert]

Ah yes, the Miller-Urey Experiment. What a great support for Intelligent Design. What this showed was that when an intelligent being designs an experiment, controls the conditions, juxtaposes the right ingredients, and applies the necessary power, organic material happens. A tiny reflection of the divine image mirrored in the intelligence, imagination, and creativity of man. PTL.