Finally, it's over

[BenJammin]

I didn't say it would happen.  What I said was, "...should be...".

Of course, the fact that the federal government continues to infringe on yet another of the states rights should make all the ultra-libs feel all warm & fuzzy inside...

[dnr1128]

As far as abortion goes, Roe v. Wade should be overturned and the issue sent back to to states where it really belongs.  Allow the people of the individual states to have a say in what the laws of that particular state are.

I concur.  This is one of the many issues that should be decided on a state level, not from DC.  

[Chérie]

I didn't say it would happen.  What I said was, "...should be...".

Of course, the fact that the federal government continues to infringe on yet another the states rights should make all the ultra-libs feel all warm & fuzzy inside...

not so much.

however the abortion issue has taken a backseat with both parties. its an issue that no one wants to deal with - its political suicide.

again, the word abortion has been perverted. when you say abortion everyone automatically assumes the worst form of birth control. there are times when it is a viable medical procedure - who is the state government to tell me what to do with my body? as a free citizen i should have that right.

[Brother Dad]

The right to murder. 

[Brother Dad]

The right to take an innocent human and rip their arms and legs from their body.  Abortion is murder in the wost kind of way.  It is God that should give life or take it.

[Melody]

Chérie, except for birth control is exactly what it's mostly used for, under the guise of extreme few and far between circumstances.  Especially when it comes to partial birth abortion. 

[BenJammin]

Exactly.  By Planned Parenthood's own numbers, something like less than 1% of all abortions are to save the life of the mother.

[Chérie]

what about when the child dies in the womb? or is given 0 chance of life expectancy. should the mother have to wait nine months to grieve for the loss of her child?

[BenJammin]

Then it wouldn't be an abortion.  Abortion today is commonly recognized as the deliberate termination of an otherwise viable pregnancy.

[Melody]

How many are actually cases like that Chérie?  Few and far between all the MILLIONS of selfish women and teens who don't want to have to deal with thier "mistake" but don't want to keep their pants zipped either. 

MILLIONS of healthy babies.

The world wants to make us think you CAN have it both ways, you can be premiscuous and not have to have any consequences but it just isn't true.

[Chérie]

Then it wouldn't be an abortion.  Abortion today is commonly recognized as the deliberate termination of an otherwise viable pregnancy.

I think techincally its still called an abortion. Or at least, thats what my doctor called it.

[BenJammin]

I'm sorry for your loss...not sure if I had told you before.  The technical term may apply in the doctors office, but that's not what the populace at large understands abortion to be.

For the sake of argument, let's assume abortion is defined as follows - ...the deliberate termination of an otherwise viable pregnancy.

[Chérie]

which is unethical and i think disgusting.

but how do you legislate it? how do you tell one woman that it is ok to terminate her pregnancy due to things beyond her control, and then tell another woman she cannot terminate because of choice?

[Brother Dad]

what about when the child dies in the womb? or is given 0 chance of life expectancy. should the mother have to wait nine months to grieve for the loss of her child?

If the baby dies in the womb that is not a woman terminating the life of the Baby.  If the baby has 0 chance then I would say that would be up to God not the woman.  I have heard of woman who were given little or no chance of the baby surviving having healthy babies. 

I too again am sorry for your loss, but I do not feel at anytime I have the right to try and be God.   

[Brother Dad]

which is unethical and i think disgusting.

but how do you legislate it? how do you tell one woman that it is ok to terminate her pregnancy due to things beyond her control, and then tell another woman she cannot terminate because of choice?

First of all you can never legislate morality.  It is not that I feel we can stop all abortions.  I just don't feel we should endorse them.  And I sure don't like our tax dollars paying for them.  Just because the government says it is a choice, does not change the fact it is murder of an innocent human life.  A tiny life that has no voice to speak for itself.  No one to cry for the baby's rights.  We should not endorse the a live abortion. 

As far as your question, facts make all the difference in the world.  If the baby is dead is far different then if the baby is alive and will die from our actions. 

[Sis]

Gee, it worked for a couple of centuries up to now. People weren't allowed to kill babies.

BTW, when a baby dies in the womb, it usually self-aborts. It would be considered still born. There are a few rare cases where the fetus isn't expelled after it passes away. But when a doctor removes the child, it has always been allowed in medicine.

Isn't it funny when a child is wanted, it's a baby. When it's not wanted it's a fetus.

[Melody]

which is unethical and i think disgusting.

but how do you legislate it? how do you tell one woman that it is ok to terminate her pregnancy due to things beyond her control, and then tell another woman she cannot terminate because of choice?

You don't, you let it be a case by case situation.  Since in reality those are SO FEW compared to the birth control ones, it shouldn't be as hard as it sounds.  There has and will always be dr.s that will do such things for the mother's safety, even if some have a moral conflict with it.

Letting the government become involved has backfired big time so that legislation NEVER covers the unique circumstances of every situation, and the lines get wider and wider until we're letting/on the verge of letting, teens get abortions without parental consent and our tax $$ paying for it.

Not every good idea is good in application.

[Stevebert]

Meanwhile, back at the thread...

Perhaps God continues to allow the USA to get what it deserves every four years.

And perhaps the policies and actions of a President Obama will not be as extreme as the highest hopes of his supporters (free health care! free college! free housing! free money at taxtime! immediate withdrawal from Iraq!) -or- as the worst fears of his opponents (socialist welfare state! bankrupting industries through punitive regulation! immense tax increases for those earning more than $XXX! appeasement of terrorists! trashing the constitution!).

Let's try to stay informed of the decisions that legislators and executives make and let them know- letters, phone calls, emails- when we do not approve. ESPECIALLY when nomination of supreme court justices (see below) comes around, as it will. Unfortunately we cannot rely on mainstream media to keep us informed, and office-holders themselves love to do dark deeds in secret.

PS. Abortion is murder. Aborters, assisters, and conspirers deserve prison terms- the more abortions, the longer the terms. Yes, the pregnant woman who orders an abortion is like a mother who takes out a contract with a killer on her own kid. The pro-abortion people are counting on religious conservatives to become uneasy and uncomfortable with the question of punishing the pathetic should-be moms if and when abortion again becomes a criminal act.

[Chérie]

Gee, it worked for a couple of centuries up to now. People weren't allowed to kill babies.

not sure where you got your info, but as long as women have been having babies there has been abortion. it was a little more crude back then. instead of sterile environment, women would use wire coat hangers, take nasty potions, visit quacks in some dirty alley.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0856467.html ; this is a nonpartisan website with a little bit of info. if you want you can take the time to look up more info, but its a well known fact that abortion isn't some phenomenon that started occurring in the 20th century.

[Brother Dad]

Murder started with Cain.

[Melody]

performing it with sterility doesn't make it better at all!

They did it before but not by such grand numbers and so casually.   And it wasn't some celebrated "right." 

I never did understand the, "because God designed human life to grow in my body, I therefore have the right to kill it." how completely self absorbed of an idea.  It's IN a woman's body, but it is still not HER body she's killing.

[Sis]

Gee, it worked for a couple of centuries up to now. People weren't allowed to kill babies.

not sure where you got your info, but as long as women have been having babies there has been abortion. it was a little more crude back then. instead of sterile environment, women would use wire coat hangers, take nasty potions, visit quacks in some dirty alley.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0856467.html  this is a nonpartisan website with a little bit of info. if you want you can take the time to look up more info, but its a well known fact that abortion isn't some phenomenon that started occurring in the 20th century.

Not sure where you got your information but illegal abortions weren't  as prevelent as some would have you believe. They blew a few cases out of proportion to get the country to feel sorry for the poor women and passed Roe V wade.  I remember seeing movies where the poor woman had to struggle to get one in a back room. TV cop shows, too. Total propaganda that was shown to the public to get the public to feel sorry for the poor woman who took her life in her hands to get rid of her child.

At first, they told people abortion was only for those who needed abortions for the health of the mothers and the babies. Actually, the wording right from the beginning allowed abortion for any reason. And it wasn't a year before they started using it for birth control.

Abortion is used to cover wrong doing (sin if you will). A girl who doesn't want her parents to know she's sexually active. A wife who doesn't want her husband to know she's been messing around. Those women who don't make their "choice" BEFORE a child comes, and use birth control. Killing babies to cover up wrong doing is a horrible way to do things.

Most mothers who opt abortion have mental problems afterward. They hide it but they all have problems with the killing of their children.

NOTE:  I'm NOT talking about babies who die before being born, that's another thing altogether. I'm talking about abortion to cover wrong-doing. Using it for birth control.

And I don't have to get my information anywhere. Remember, I was around before Roe V Wade. I've lived it.

[Sis]

performing it with sterility doesn't make it better at all!

They did it before but not by such grand numbers and so casually.   And it wasn't some celebrated "right." 

I never did understand the, "because God designed human life to grow in my body, I therefore have the right to kill it." how completely self absorbed of an idea.  It's IN a woman's body, but it is still not HER body she's killing.

Right. Actually, it's not your body. The baby has it's own systems. It's own blood type. Many times their blood type isn't compatable with the mother's. They have their own heart that's beating. They are a separate being living within the mother while it grows to the point of viability.

As long as it's heart is beating, it is a separate being. It's not the mother's own body. It's two bodies. Separate and indivicual. As most mothers can tell you as their children grow older.

[Brother Dad]

I knew a guy that I went to school with.  Got shot and killed while trying to rob a store.  If they would legalize stealing then he would not have gotten killed.

[Charlene]

well, I guess we won't have to worry about Palin's skirt...