Tithing

[eager4TRUTH]

Jfrog: I was wondering are you one of the "they".  Paying a tithe will send a person to hell because that person has went back to the Law.  Paul states a person has fallen from grace and  Jesus's death was for nothing. Read all of Gal.  It matters not whether a person beleives its ok or not, whether that person is just in obedience to their pope (pastor). The Word of God states not to do it. Paul did state as well as James to supply the needs of others, and the Evangelist, read Acts4:32-37 and 2Cor.8:11-15.  I don't know whether you have studied this out or not, but it sounds as though you do not know the subject of tithes, paid only under the Law.  By the way there was never one person over any church in Gods Word.  In Acts 14:23 Paul states ,he and Barnabas ordained elders note the "s" on the word elders and not on the word church, meaning more than one pastor over each of the assembies. Pastor and elder are the same.

By the way who brought the children of Israel out of Egypt and who judged them?   It takes Gods name to save a person.  I am Jesus Name Apostolic. These are some other scriptures you need to study because we live in a Spiritual dispensation.

[jfrog]

eager4TRUTH,

 I believe that the bible does not teach that Christians should pay tithes.  I believe that paying tithes will not send anyone to hell.  I believe that a preacher that sincerely believes and teaches tithing will not be damned to hell.  Not everything is a heaven or hell issue.  As for knowing the subject of tithes, I don't think anyone knows it well.  I do know that tithing was a very specific command to the Jews with very specific instructions on what to tithe.  I have also heard that the recipients of tithes (Levitical priesthood) in the old testament could not own property or really much of anything.  I'm sure I can find the scriptures supporting this if you would like.  Because of this, it seems to me that since the pastors and preachers of today own property and other things that they are disqualifed from receiving biblical tithes.

As far as discussing many pastors or elders as opposed to a single one, that would belong more on a thread about church structure and not on a thread about tithing...

eager4TRUTH, as for the implication that you know the subject of tithes better than me... well I'll leave ya to your delusions!  jkjk.  Seriously though, why would you even want to imply such a thing, even if it was true?

[Raven180]

In my understanding the catholic church perverted the translation to their advantage, to get money "tithes ordinance" which were nailed to the cross.

That's a pretty hefty assertion against God's Word. What evidences lends itself to this "understanding"?

[Raven180]

I just want to say something to this question...

It's true what the Scripture says, that the laborer is worthy of his hire/reward, i.e. his wage. But the Bible calls pastors to be shepherds, not hirelings, or wage workers, which derives from the same Greek word (see John 10:12-13). They are not to take the oversight of a church for the sake of a wage, but rather out of a dutiful love of God and a compassionate response to His calling, which I suppose, the majority do. Paul himself time and again told the churches which he oversaw that he was never financially chargeable to any of them, but rather, worked with his own hands, night and day, so that he and his team of ministers were always taken care of, as an example to be followed (e.g. 2 Corinthians 11:9, 1 Thessalonians 2:9, 2 Thessalonians 3:8 ). He wouldn't even eat another man's bread without paying for it!

And can we say that Paul wasn't a full time minister? (See 2 Corinthians 11:28)

Granted, Paul did assert that he had authority over the churches' "carnal things" since he ministered to them in "spiritual things", most likely referring to being taken care of: food, clothing, shelter, etc (1 Corinthians 9:11). But his assertion was not to say that he had a right to ten percent of every church member's wages, just that they had an obligation, if he were to so enforce it, to provide for him. (But he never enforced such an obligation, so far as I can tell.)

So, yes, it is correct. Don't muzzle the oxen. They should be allowed to eat of the very corn they are treading out. But, if the corn they are treading out is the church's finances, it shows that they have the right to a part, perhaps even a double portion if they rule well (and even that is a suspect interpretation), but not to all. And, in keeping with the metaphor, an ox that consumes more than is sufficient is a glutton, and would probably get taken off of the grinding mill, if you catch the meaning.

[EricShane]

confusing!!! I tried to read most of everything everyone posted...

alot of this just doesnt make sense to me..

But, the church I always grew up in preached against paying tithes.. now the church I go to preaches your supposed to pay tithes

[eager4TRUTH]

I have to say that tithe,tithes or tithing is wrong whether a person believes it is or not. any time we go back to the Law and Paul something out to live by we are wrong.Read all of gal. Paul used circumcise, yet states it like this.  Paul say unto you, that, if ye (you) be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing.  Think on the rest of that he said for I testify again to every man that is circumcised,that he is a debtor to do the whole Law.  Christ is become of no effect unto you, who so ever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace. I say that Paul not only was stating that circumcision was wrong but anything we pull out of the O.T. to live by.  Paul was trying to teach the Gentiles as well as the Jews not to go back under the Law to live by any part of it.  That is why I said to read all of Gal.  I know people state Heb.7 Could not find in Gen.14 where Abraham started talking until the 22v. thru 24.  I could not understand how Abraham could give of that he didn't have, as well as his statement to Bera the king of sodom, for surely he would have thought the same about the other kings.  I will state something here that will get me banned.  I can not see how people want to divide the Bible up into topics an say that we can't bring other statements into a certain topic, the Bible can never be divided it is back or disprove each topic.  Tithes were never taught or given before the law nor after it. So to prove a point we have to use all the Word of God as it is stated all scripture is give for reproof, doctrine and etc.  And yes 1John 5:78 were added just in case Rob W reads this!  Just as was Heb.7:4,5 was perverted.  I state that is why Paul was trying so hard to teach the Galatians not to go back to the Law. Just as circumcision was a work so is tithing.  I will state this I have showed the truth it is up to you as you have read and rightly divide it.  If any would like to discuss this more  between us email me at dant@yahoo.com

















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[ShelleBelle76]

I am a new Christian, so I probably can't quote scriptures and talk theology as well as most of you.  However, I can tell you this.  My mentor and his wife hold a BibLe study at their home every week, and we have touched on the topic of tithes.  He is a firm believer in tithing... not as a requirement, but he calls it "a free blessing".  He is maticulous in his tithing, and says from the moment he began to seriously tithe on a regular basis and giving the FIRST FRUITS (he won't even buy a pack of gum before he sets aside his tithe), the blessings of God have literally poured out on their life.  The more he began to make financially the more he bagan to give, and the more he received.  He says you can NEVER outgive God.  Not to boast, but to make his point he told me that before he tithed they were facing bankruptcy, foreclosure, repossesion, but as a result of tithing plus giving charitably as much as he can, God has increased them so much that they give away more money than they spend on themselves. He is a contractor and it is nothing for God to bless him with $20,000 and 50,000 jobs FOR TWO WEEKS OF WORK.  And he rejoices, not because he has so much money, but he says "look at how many people I can help with this money!"  That is a truly giving heart!

Now debate all you want about how right or wrong tithing is, but when someone talks to you about the joy of tithing and seeing the blessings of God on their lives in such a real way, I do not know how you can call tithing a sin.

[yosemite]

just like a woman to put logic on the table during a good debate. well whatsoever i believe your right shellebelle. God owns all we have and gives us what we are to get, so i can give back to him also. i look at it like this: in the bible it tells us to forgive as he has forgiven, should we not also give as he has given, or love as he has loved, serve as he has served?  he healed the lepers and only one returned to thank him. but for the one humble leper was a full healing for he was made whole!!

[Raven180]

just like a woman to put logic on the table during a good debate. well whatsoever i believe your right shellebelle. God owns all we have and gives us what we are to get, so i can give back to him also. i look at it like this: in the bible it tells us to forgive as he has forgiven, should we not also give as he has given, or love as he has loved, serve as he has served?  he healed the lepers and only one returned to thank him. but for the one humble leper was a full healing for he was made whole!!

And that one was a tithe of the group of lepers, i.e. there were 10 and only 1/10th came back to worship and give thanks to Jesus.

[yosemite]

And that one was a tithe of the group of lepers, i.e. there were 10 and only 1/10th came back to worship and give thanks to Jesus.

yea!! i would love to have seen what Jesus would have done if all the lepers had come back to thank and worship him.  we can never out give God.