Normal or not Normal?

[angel]

Is this normal? My son Jesse who will be six in November got into a fight with his sister, Miriam.  He stabbed her in the neck with a pencil.  I don't know where this is coming from.  We have a good Christian home.  The only thing that really has changed is that my husband started working for the railroad last year after he go laid off from his job at Sara Lee.  Well, he is gone a lot, but he does come home on the weekend.  Do you think this is where Jesse's anger is stemming from.  Miriam doesn't act like this.  Maybe it is a boy thing.  I don't know.  Maybe someone here could help me.  I haven't been on Godplace in a long time.

-ladyshep aka shep252

[Melody]

It's hard to say why but don't let the "it's a boy thing" fly for even a moment.  Some boys have a lot of energy that needs physically loosed but that doesn't equal hurting someone often (accidents do happen).  I would make sure to discern if the "problem" is energy, or stress, or gap in character that u need to address. 

2 great books: bringing up boys by james dobson & personality plus for kids by.. Oooh I can't remember the author this moment.

[angel]

Good idea!  You're right about "it's a boy thing". He might need counseling or something.

[Scott]

I have two sons, almost 17 and 22!

Boys are very physical and aggressive, they are far different from girls.  Boys will act out in violent and physical ways; however it is up to the parent to nip it in the bud.

I've worked in Children's prisons and with lots of kids with emotional issues over the years.

Is this normal?

Yes.

Boys will act out physically, and they will use things to hit and stab when mad or frustrated.  Is his sister older?  Younger boys tend to use objects to strike at older siblings when they feel teased, picked on or frustrated. 

My oldest son had picked on his little brother quite a bit and the younger got angry and frustrated. He was perhaps 4 years old when he started hitting his older brother with a tonka truck while he was sleeping.   

1.) he lost that truck
2.) he got a spanking

Don't let him get away with it. Also be aware that the older kid(s) maybe teasing or taunting.

Do not under any circumstances compare his behaviour with his sister, boys and girls will act differently and you cannot force him to  act the same way as the sister.

My son Jesse who will be six in November got into a fight with his sister, Miriam.  He stabbed her in the neck with a pencil.  I don't know where this is coming from.

Being a boy. 

We have a good Christian home.

That doesn't matter, boys are boys.

The only thing that really has changed is that my husband started working for the railroad last year after he go laid off from his job at Sara Lee.  Well, he is gone a lot, but he does come home on the weekend.

Do not make excuses for it, do not try to make it your fault or your husbands fault.  He is a boy, acting out and needs his mom and dad to take a firm hand.

Yes dad being gone a lot can affect the kids, but that is where the mom needs to be a bit tougher and deal with it ASAP. When Dad gets home, he cannot walk into a "punish the kid(s)" mode right away. Avoid saying "Wait til your father gets home". Do not make him dread dad coming hom. Dad needs to be the loving dad, not the right hand of punishment.

I know what it is like to be sound asleep and to have dad walk into my room and start beating me with a belt over something. Nothing worse than waking up to dad beating you because mom told him to go spank me.  I woke up confused and scared. I would dread dad coming home.

Do you think this is where Jesse's anger is stemming from.

*shrug*

Maybe, but more than likely he is a boy acting out

Miriam doesn't act like this.

Girls tend to act out differently.

  Maybe it is a boy thing.  I don't know. 

Boys will do things to test you, you need to pass the test and be tough!

It's hard to say why but don't let the "it's a boy thing" fly for even a moment.

It is a boy thing, but that doesn't excuse his behavior. The first time it is a boy thing, maybe the second time; but if a 3rd or 4th time happens.. it is a parent thing.

One of my boys got up in my face challenging me, chest bumping and trying to act the tough guy. I dropped him then and there. Guess what, it didn't happen again.

You have to be tough and don't avoid the behavior as a boy thing.

Some boys have a lot of energy that needs physically loosed but that doesn't equal hurting someone often (accidents do happen).  I would make sure to discern if the "problem" is energy, or stress, or gap in character that u need to address. 

Oh this needs to be addressed.

1.) find out why he stabbed her. Did she tease him? Take a toy away?
2.) Punish him hard, not abusively, but hard.  Spank his rear end, not wimpy 5 minute time outs. No videos, no favorite toys for a specific time period.  2 days? - 3 days?  The younger they are, you ground them shorter times.

2 great books: bringing up boys by james dobson & personality plus for kids by.. Oooh I can't remember the author this moment.

The Dobson book is good - anyone with boys need to read it, anyone with boys born after they had girls,, needs to read it, anyone raised without a brother, needs to read it, any Sunday School teacher or pastor that does not have boys, needs to read it.

He might need counseling or something.

Don't jump into that too quickly. Boys are boys, and not everything requires counseling. He just needs a tough hand and rules to follow.

Our society wants to send everyone to counseling, wants all boys to act like girls and wants us all to get in touch with our feelings and to share with others. Hog wash.

Boys are boys
Girls are girls

They are different as night and day. Boys simply need a firm hand or they will try to  rule the roost.

[Scott]

Dobson once said that if your child wakes up looking for a fight, give it to them - but you had better win.

[Melody]

Awesome post Scott.

Andrew who is now 13, went through that testing. The thing was even though Hannah is almost 4 yrs younger than him, she is coy, from an early age.

Another great book is To train up a child by the Pearls.  They explain it very weroll that yes, some thing are just "natural" and carnal but that doesn't excuse it. In fact that is a huge lesson!  We are to discipline this flesh & it starts at infancy.  It just  helps understand that not all mean   acts are truly malicious. I love what 1 of the authors listed said: "Manners lead to morals."  They learn what is right/wrong before they understand it.

[angel]

Wow! Thank you. Awesome input guys.  Wayne and I have been using Kevin Leman's tactics.  They do work great.  The thing I have a hard time doing is spanking.  It just seems that when I spank, he gets worse and starts hitting me.  Then I do it again he gets so agressive. He reacts differently to my spanks than to Wayne's. I then resort to no computer, no bike no treats thing.  I am also afraid of going to jail because of spanking and have avoided it like the plague ever since I heard what happened one of Wayne's friends here in La Crosse.  He spanked his kid, the kid told a teacher, the teacher called the cops, he went to jail just like that just because of one spank. 

[Scott]

If your son continues to act out, then you need to give him some structure.

My soon to be 17 year old has to do certain things.  7am take the dog out to the bathroom and after school he has to feed the dog and take him out.  Then at bed time, he has to take the dog out  for one last potty break, then lock all doors and turn the handles to make sure they are locked.  Day starts and ends with a specific structure.  Because he is older, the structure is different.

When they are younger you have to give them structure, rules to follow, chores to do and times to do certain things - the hard part is for the parent to stick to that schedule.  Strict bed time,  strict wake up time, same routine day in, day out.

When I was a kid, bed time was 9 pm and lights out  was 10 pm, then as I aged it moved to 10 pm or 11 pm.  Rules had to be followed.

Rewards for chores.  .25 cents a day for each day he cleans his room, 25 cents a day for each day he does (fill in the blank)  The reward and chores change as they get older.

I collect comic books and had a ton of duplicates and stuff I really didn't want to keep. My oldest was rewared with comic books or baseball cards.   

Whatever schedule and reward system you devise needs to be consistant and obtainable - with some work. Don't make it too easy.

One that works is favorite food or activity... "Sammy, if you clean your room every day this week, on Saturday I will take you to Dairy Queen for a Brownie Supreme"  Or " If you take the trash out every day, on Saturday I will take you to the childrens zoo"

It works for the military and works for the kid.

When my kids became too rowdy, we played boot camp. They were soldiers and I was the drill instructor. They had to run in place, Drop, up, run, drop, then crawl on their belly from one end of the room to the other, then stand at attention, march, run in place, drop,up, run, drop, up, on and on until I wore them out. They loved the game. They got wore out and went to sleep early

[Scott]

Wow! Thank you. Awesome input guys.  Wayne and I have been using Kevin Leman's tactics. 

I know him and his family. I can tell stories....

They do work great.  The thing I have a hard time doing is spanking.  It just seems that when I spank, he gets worse and starts hitting me.

Yeah that will happen, then you spank him again and take away a privilege. If he hits you, slap his hand and tell him NO. Each hit gets a slap and another privilege taken away.

Parenting is not easy by any means. Some days you wonder if you are a good or bad parent. We all go through that.

Then I do it again he gets so agressive.

of course, it is a power struggle and YOU have to be the winner.

he reacts differently to my spanks than to Wayne's.

Yes he does, dad spanks harder. You just need to give it a bit more English on the back swing. My kids would laugh at their mom's spankings, if I was home I offered to give them something to laugh about. 

I then resort to no computer, no bike no treats thing.  I am also afraid of going to jail because of spanking and have avoided it like the plague ever since I heard what happened one of Wayne's friends here in La Crosse.  He spanked his kid, the kid told a teacher, the teacher called the cops, he went to jail just like that just because of one spank.

It happens, but they have to convict you of malicious punishment of a child - a spanking with your bare hand on the butt does not qualify in the long run.  The kid no doubt added to the story, made it worse.

When my kids told me that If I spanked them they'd call the police, I handed them the phone and told them that "the police may arrest me, they may not, but they would be put in a foster home with other kids, and not allowed to have their own toys, their own room and would not go to their same school, nor see grandma and grandpa for a long time.  They would change schooles maybe a couple of times per year and no more Christmas and Birthday Presents from mom and day.  So be sure to press firmly 9-1-1 and tell the police that you yelled and mom and dad, you told them to shut up and broke a window out of anger, so you got a spanking. Do it now, and you  will be out of the house in foster care."

If they think they can scare you, they will and will use that fear to control you.

The courts have to prove abuse!

[Melody]

Dr. Dobson said once on the radio that if you spank him & he even looks at u back defiantly, u didn't spank him hard enough. Do it again.

I notice a lot of moms spank pretty wimpy which moots the entire point. It's not love if we can't say no and hold to it in whatever way way.

Andrew hit me once when he was little, 3 or 4 yrs old maybe.

Kids can tell if your heart isn't in it. If you don't lead, they will, it's very simple.

[angel]

You just know everyone, Scott! lol


I remember laughing at my mom's spanks!  Then she would get out the wooden spoon. 

Wouldn't the law count that as abuse now days?  Spanking with an object?

[Melody]

Was your friend living for God? God is on your side sis.

[angel]

IDK. Thanks, you are right on. And I'm glad that to see a mother is still on GP. 

Was your friend living for God? God is on your side sis.

[Scott]

You just know everyone, Scott! lol

not Necessarily.... I knew the Leaman family very well.

And I know people in LaCrosse, Holmen and Onalaska too.     I used to be a traveling evangelist years ago, and I married into a very large apostolic family.

I remember laughing at my mom's spanks!  Then she would get out the wooden spoon. 

Wouldn't the law count that as abuse now days?  Spanking with an object?

They might, that is why lawyers say to use your hand.

[angel]

off topic, but yeah, I remember you saying a few years ago that you knew Sister Viola and people in the area. Good people around these parts!  The Parkers are now pastoring in La Crosse, also.

Anyways, Dr. Dobson says he prefers a neutral object because kids recognize the hands as being loving or something or other. Didn't know lawers say not to.

Also, Jesse loves being the instigator of teasing his older sister.   

[Scott]

neutral object because kids

hand to rear = no jail

Little siblings always tease the older, but the older usually instigates by knowing the buttons to push

[Melody]

You know, Hannah looks up to Andrew a lot & he often isn't interested in little kids stuff, let alone girly, now that he's a teenager.  So she will often get onrey with him just for his attention. Younger siblings can have a hard time with older ones growing into new phases & losing interest in them.  They're desperate for that relationship.

IDK. Thanks, you are right on. And I'm glad that to see a mother is still on GP. 

[angel]

Well, we got the kids a structured chore chart and I am also going to make a behavior chart also.  Hopefully that will add better structure to my kids and this home.