would you marry debt?

[Amelia Bedelia]

As most of you know, I'm single, fully self sufficient, debt-free and gainfully employed.  Free as a bird, could drop everything and go be a wife and mommy across the country as soon as I meet a viable guy.   However thats not happening and on the flip side its a fantastic time to buy a home with the low rates, depressed prices (only moderate drop up here unfortunately ), tax incentives and etc.

So, I've been kinda starting to look around, my idea is a multi-family, probably a bit of a fixer upper in a not quite officially up-and-coming neighborhood.  If I do this, its at least a 5-10year commitment even if I maintain good tenants and would be a hefty mortgage.   Tossing the idea around with my ex-bf  (who is really good with finance and economics)  he mentioned that on a personal level it might deter my future prospects to have such a hefty debt load and that unless the guy makes double what I do, I could probably kiss the idea of staying home goodbye.

So, if you were in Mr. Better-Late-Than-Never's shoes... would it be a deterrent?  Is this the kind of decision that really should be made together?  NYC isn't exactly one of the cheapest places to live so its a pretty substantial sum.  And while the clock is ticking, I do realize I've got a few years to go before I even hit 30 so I don't have to marry spinsterhood yet

Thoughts?

[nwlife]

To marry debt, it depends on the amount, what it is and how it's achieved.  A house mortgage, investment properties, students loans, car payment is okay, (as long as they were not trying to look like they own Beverly hills itself).

Did a study a short time back, and thanks to my new car (after wrecking my Toyota a year ago)--I am in way over my head again.  for me, it's student loans, (2 major ones) car, credit card that I should never have run up.  while potentially I should be debt free in 10 years, then comes the house mortgage of mom's that she will need help with.  
So does this sound appetizing to any young lady?    

It doesn't to me when I take the same thing and apply it in reverse. I don't know anyone who would want to tackle the load I got, though I have met a few who would have gladly added to it!  

[Amelia Bedelia]

(after wrecking my Toyota a year ago)

Toyota eh, did you wreck it or did it run away on its own? 

[Newsman]

I think it would be part of you, Lady AB.. you think things out, have obviously thought about this one... the 'debt' is actually, as long as things operate normally, an investment, and one that should pay dividends in years to come. It shows your knowledge of real estate matters, as well, and the understanding you have of the markets and timing to move on them.

You would be a great catch for a man, Mary. The guy should see your forethought as part of your plusses, not a negative.

As to the part about wanting to be a stay-at-home Mom, that is a part of you as well. If the man can't handle that, then the mortgage may be kind fo a 'litmus test' for you to use.


John  

[1legRooster]

I think it would be a wise thing.  Sure if you meet mister late, it could have a tough couple years financially, but the dividends to the future would be great.

If the real estate market has recovered, then the property could be sold, or held onto and the rental income could aid the household budget well into the future. 

I think it also shows a wise woman, since in the much referenced Proverbs 31, the lady of the house considers and purchases vineyards, which would be comparable to investment property.

So I have the idea   

[SippinTea]

I think you already got some great answers there, Mary. I'm not even going to add my two cents to this one. *watches everyone breathe a sigh of relief*

[The Purple Fuzzy]

The only thing I would add is, it can tie you down.  What if Mr. Right lives clear across the country.  It would make it harder the drop things and go if that's how it worked out.  If Mr. Right lives close, it could be great.

[1legRooster]

The purple fuzzy is wise, and true.   

[SippinTea]

Aye, that she is.

[Amelia Bedelia]

That's just the thing - I've made a lot of decisions based off thinking my future would involve a husband and family and I've stayed flexible and just saved money for that time

At what point do I start making decisions based entirely on my self?  It would end up being a half million dollar and 5-15year commitment to NYC.  I could get a lot more for the money just about anywhere else in the US, but I'm here and haven't a clue if I'll be going somewhere else.  I've been wanting to buy a place for 7 years now but always held off figuring I'd end up getting married and didn't want to be tied down.

Should I face reality yet and put dreams of family in the past and make plans to be single longterm?  I don't really have many career goals, nothing has ever been as important as having a family so I'm kinda lost when I try to think of other things to do with myself.

Thanks for the input though guys and giving me a place to kick around thoughts

[(R.I.P.) YooperYankDude]

Ok... I am going to be the evil guy here for just a few seconds...

Say you do buy the place, there are millions of people right now that are making their mortgage payments, and payments on rentals ON time, not in foreclosure, but as UPSIDE down on the property.

We just had a major economic downturn, that frankly is not turning around yet, and may actually get worse. The dollar is not stable right now, and the Dow Jones just dipped below 10K again...

Perhaps it used to be a great idea for an investment in Housing... but even the analysts are saying it's not a good time to buy.

There are other options if your looking at investments... raw land, maybe not in NYC, but elsewhere, land is puchasable at a decent price still. And they are not making anymore of it... there is a limited supply of land, and therefore as the demand goes up, the supply goes down, and the price will increase.

Some of these places you can pick up nice farm land, or land with hardwoods on it for $2-3K an acre... but in PA and NY, it goes for $10-20K per acre.

The places it is going for $10-20 now, 20 yrs ago was going for $500 an acre.

I lived out in Utah, and land out there is currently $80k an acre for the cheap farm land... the land in the valley is over $1 million an acre... for just land... not including a house or anything.

One old farm boy asked me how much I though he paid for his 120 acres when he bought it... it was less than $500 an acre... now he is sitting on over a Million Dollars worth of land.

Houses are not the same... houses are decreasing... but land is just one option... there is also precious metals... not talking about a Gold ring here...

I am speaking of Gold Coins that will hold their value, and in fact if the dollar tanks (as it continues to do) it would be better to have the Gold, b/c it can be transferred to currency in other countries...

Sorry... stepping down and backing away now... lol

Just something to ponder... although you seem intelligent, so you probably have already thought of this... 

[Sis]

I wish I was the guy that Disney bought the land from in CA for his first Disney property.

[Ashlee]

At what point do I start making decisions based entirely on my self?

This is the part I feel the need to comment on.  For me, I've decided I have to do what is best for me right now. I'm building my life and making investments and making decisions for me because I don't know when/if a man may enter my life.

If and when that does happen, I'm not going to rush the relationship into marriage, so there will be plenty of time to work out details together on how our lives will change and blend together. If in fact things just 'click' and it happens sooner than I think it might, then we can work on that too.

Right now, I just need to focus on me. Sounds kinda selfish, but I've learned if I don't do it, if I don't take care of my future, then no one else will.

[Amelia Bedelia]

Ok... I am going to be the evil guy here for just a few seconds...

Say you do buy the place, there are millions of people right now that are making their mortgage payments, and payments on rentals ON time, not in foreclosure, but as UPSIDE down on the property.

We just had a major economic downturn, that frankly is not turning around yet, and may actually get worse. The dollar is not stable right now, and the Dow Jones just dipped below 10K again...

Perhaps it used to be a great idea for an investment in Housing... but even the analysts are saying it's not a good time to buy.

There are other options if your looking at investments... raw land, maybe not in NYC, but elsewhere, land is puchasable at a decent price still. And they are not making anymore of it... there is a limited supply of land, and therefore as the demand goes up, the supply goes down, and the price will increase.

Some of these places you can pick up nice farm land, or land with hardwoods on it for $2-3K an acre... but in PA and NY, it goes for $10-20K per acre.

The places it is going for $10-20 now, 20 yrs ago was going for $500 an acre.

I lived out in Utah, and land out there is currently $80k an acre for the cheap farm land... the land in the valley is over $1 million an acre... for just land... not including a house or anything.

One old farm boy asked me how much I though he paid for his 120 acres when he bought it... it was less than $500 an acre... now he is sitting on over a Million Dollars worth of land.

Houses are not the same... houses are decreasing... but land is just one option... there is also precious metals... not talking about a Gold ring here...

I am speaking of Gold Coins that will hold their value, and in fact if the dollar tanks (as it continues to do) it would be better to have the Gold, b/c it can be transferred to currency in other countries...

Sorry... stepping down and backing away now... lol

Just something to ponder... although you seem intelligent, so you probably have already thought of this...  

Well thanks... I'm not sure how you deduce intelligence from a knowledge of waffles and spaghetti but I'll take it!

You bring up good points that I have considered.  The tanking market, dollar and etc. is part of why this would have to be longterm, and I'm trying to view it NOT as an investment but rather a place to live... hopefully with tenants helping with my expenses and that one day it will pay off but being prepared that it might not.  Also, I'm jumping the gun based on the tax credits and interest rates - I'd only be able to put down 10-15% and thats on a 30 year loan... Ideally I'd rather at least 20% and a 15year loan.  So I have the potential of being over my head real quick.   I just would love to move closer in and stop renting, currently I'm an hour from work, neighborhoods I'm looking at would be about 30 minutes closer.  But I have a fantastic and cheap apt in a safe area so I really can't complain about my current spot

I used to sell real estate and I'm not much into raw land unless you really know your area and what you're doing... even though we generally don't make more of it, there is still so much of it and if you don't get the good end of a zoning and development plan it can remain pretty worthless for decades

I do have other investments and just became eligible for my company's retirement plan that I definitely plan on participating in... so I wouldn't be putting all my eggs into one basket.  Currency and commodity trading is something I've not really gotten into yet though I agree with you about gold

This is the part I feel the need to comment on.  For me, I've decided I have to do what is best for me right now. I'm building my life and making investments and making decisions for me because I don't know when/if a man may enter my life.

If and when that does happen, I'm not going to rush the relationship into marriage, so there will be plenty of time to work out details together on how our lives will change and blend together. If in fact things just 'click' and it happens sooner than I think it might, then we can work on that too.

Right now, I just need to focus on me. Sounds kinda selfish, but I've learned if I don't do it, if I don't take care of my future, then no one else will.

I'm proud of you Ash  *hugs*

And I agree... I'm not sitting on my hands waiting for a guy to come along.  But at the same time I don't want to make decisions and commitments that could seriously jeopardize things in a joint-future when its not hurting me to simply pick another option.... just trying my patience  

I seriously have a "thing" for houses though... I'm the girl that fantasizes about polishing floors, scrubbing toilets, having amazing kitchen appliances and doing landscaping.  I used to have this house in my head I would retreat to when I was going through hard times and I would just daydream about mowing the lawn and do various chores... its a gorgeous victorian home with a wraparound porch and white picket fence if anyone is wondering...

Wow, well if anyone had any doubts left as to whether or not I was truly crazy and weird, I trust I've put those doubts to rest... I will slink away and try to find something normal to do now...  LOL

[(R.I.P.) YooperYankDude]

  

Well thanks... I'm not sure how you deduce intelligence from a knowledge of waffles and spaghetti but I'll take it!

I gather it from your opening statement...

As most of you know, I'm single, fully self sufficient, debt-free and gainfully employed.  Free as a bird, could drop everything and go be a wife and mommy across the country as soon as I meet a viable guy.

That much right there tells me your smarter than the average bear... (lol...), and a thorough knowledge of waffles and spaghetti may come in handy should you find a guy who likes them!

[1legRooster]

For that matter you could look into the money trading markets, buy currency like the euro and when it goes up, trade it to dollars, supposedly people make money on that market. 

If you are looking into other lines of investment.

[Amelia Bedelia]

LOL thanks YYD

For that matter you could look into the money trading markets, buy currency like the euro and when it goes up, trade it to dollars, supposedly people make money on that market. 

If you are looking into other lines of investment.

good idea but actually I'm pretty skittish... my ex trades currencies first thing every morning and it was kinda overwhelming when he showed me how  LOL

I just want to keep house... and not lose hundreds of thousands of dollars doing it  LOL

[1legRooster]

Yea, I have not looked into it, since with my commute I do not have time to play with investments, I just diversified my retirement funds, and let them go.  Check a few times a year, Much less stress.  LOL

[SippinTea]

Ash darlin'... I loved that post. Go you. *smile*

[Sis]

If they keep printing paper money without any backing, our dollar won't go up.  They're pushing for a one world government. I think Obama is trying to break the USA so we can meld and not be independent. They have to break down borders and the idea that we're a separate nation.

[(R.I.P.) YooperYankDude]

If they keep printing paper money without any backing, our dollar won't go up.  They're pushing for a one world government. I think Obama is trying to break the USA so we can meld and not be independent. They have to break down borders and the idea that we're a separate nation.

Interesting... lol. Even if they stop printing today, which they wont... (he just made 4 trillion dollars in bail out spending... ) it wont change a thing in the short term. We are now a debt nation. We have a mortgage on a house that is worth MUCH less than we owe.

China pretty much owns the US... with as much money as we owe them, I am surprised they didn't appoint our President in 2008... (or did they!)

With most of our stuff made in China and Japan, and Taiwan... what do we as Americans have to sell that is worth any value? We don't manf. the raw material for the things we do make... go to Wal-mart and try to find 25 things that have "Made in the USA" on it.. let me know if you can.

When I worked in at Fastenal, which is an industrial manf. and wholesaler of nuts, bolts, washers, any type of fastener you can imagine, they had, or could make it... they had the normal Taiwan made hardware, which is relatively inexpensive, or you could go with the more expensive "North American" product, or the insanely high priced American made product.

I would get guys coming in, and wanting to buy "American" fasteners, wanting to support our Econom, instead of China's, however, the cost on most were at least double... more along the times of quadruple the cost of the China made stuff.

Even the raw material was brought from other countries. We have become a consumer nation, instead of the original plan of being a producing nation...

As far as being a separate nation... we are in the UN... and with the conglomerate EU... there will probably be a North American Union if I havent missed it's debut yet... lol

[Ashlee]

For that matter you could look into the money trading markets, buy currency like the euro and when it goes up, trade it to dollars, supposedly people make money on that market. 

If you are looking into other lines of investment.

What happens if they change the look of the currency or something and what you have is no longer good?

Ash darlin'... I loved that post. Go you. *smile*

Thank you!

[RainbowJingles]

Mary: I'm not giving advice here; just talking from my experience...

At age 30 I had a great government job with benefits and a retirement plan.
At age 37, I sometimes wish I had bought a house when I was 30 and had a job to pay for it.
If I had bought a house seven years ago, I would feel much more secure than I do now.
I, as you, had thought that I would be married much sooner in life.

On the flip side, though, if I had owned a home at age 30, I probably would NOT have
- left my secure (but incredibly unfulfilling) job to do what I felt God leading me to do
- moved to Mississippi to teach in a Bible college, where I earned MUCH less than I would have needed to make a house payment
- taken three ministry trips to Australia
- spent nearly a year on the road doing children's evangelism
- moved across the country to California when God asked me to, not knowing anything about how He was going to provide for me

Just my

[(R.I.P.) YooperYankDude]

So basically, every action or non-action has a equally appropriate reaction.

I wasn't saying anything is wrong with a lady buying a house... or property. Just curious if now is the best time considering certain economic times... and that there maybe other possible more fruitful things that could be invested it.

Having somewhere to live is definitely a need... and if the guy you meet has a house too, then it could possibly be a good thing when one of you sell it, kinda a like a large savings nest egg to start off a marriage with... definitely a good thing as well.

[The Purple Fuzzy]

For that matter you could look into the money trading markets, buy currency like the euro and when it goes up, trade it to dollars, supposedly people make money on that market. 

If you are looking into other lines of investment.

What happens if they change the look of the currency or something and what you have is no longer good?

You don't actually have the money in hand, it's all done on computer.