My pastor presented an interesting concept this week that I'm not sure I agree with but thought I'd toss onto the board for some discussion. Here's the passage he used...
Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
From this passage my pastor presented the idea that Jesus wasn't born perfect, but that he had to go through correction and be made perfect. He then said that Jesus could still be considered sinless because sin wasn't counted against someone until age 12.
That would almost fit in with an continued idea I heard preached some years back that Christ didn't become God in the flesh until the HG decended on him at baptism....
While it isn't what I agree with, it is an interresting thought to counter.
Quote from: bsr on December 11, 2008, 08:06:04 PM
From this passage my pastor presented the idea that Jesus wasn't born perfect, but that he had to go through correction and be made perfect. He then said that Jesus could still be considered sinless because sin wasn't counted against someone until age 12.
I always figured sin was sin...and if Jesus was God (and the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him), then he knew what sin was.
Quote from: bsr on December 11, 2008, 08:06:04 PM
My pastor presented an interesting concept this week that I'm not sure I agree with but thought I'd toss onto the board for some discussion. Here's the passage he used...
Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
From this passage my pastor presented the idea that Jesus wasn't born perfect, but that he had to go through correction and be made perfect. He then said that Jesus could still be considered sinless because sin wasn't counted against someone until age 12.
Jesus was perfect from birth in the sense that He was sinless.
But as a human, he was otherwise in the same condition at birth as the rest of us: physically, mentally, spiritually and socially helpless, pre-developed, untested, and without knowledge or understanding.
His perfection as referenced in Hebrews 5 is a reflection of the fact that He went through the same process every human goes through of developing, exploring, gaining knowledge and understanding, and learning to obey, submit and keep His flesh in subjection (Luke 2:40, 52). He was tested in all the same areas each of us is tested (Hebrews 4:15). The only difference between His experience and ours is that He went through this process without ever failing to conform to the image of God; that is, without sin (Hebrews 4:15). In every situation in which He was tested, He made the right choices; He passed the test.
what you posted, titushome, makes good sense to me. What my pastor was teaching leaves the door wide open for the idea that Jesus could have sinned before age 12.
Quote from: titushome on December 12, 2008, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: bsr on December 11, 2008, 08:06:04 PM
My pastor presented an interesting concept this week that I'm not sure I agree with but thought I'd toss onto the board for some discussion. Here's the passage he used...
Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
From this passage my pastor presented the idea that Jesus wasn't born perfect, but that he had to go through correction and be made perfect. He then said that Jesus could still be considered sinless because sin wasn't counted against someone until age 12.
Jesus was perfect from birth in the sense that He was sinless.
But as a human, he was otherwise in the same condition at birth as the rest of us: physically, mentally, spiritually and socially helpless, pre-developed, untested, and without knowledge or understanding.
His perfection as referenced in Hebrews 5 is a reflection of the fact that He went through the same process every human goes through of developing, exploring, gaining knowledge and understanding, and learning to obey, submit and keep His flesh in subjection (Luke 2:40, 52). He was tested in all the same areas each of us is tested (Hebrews 4:15). The only difference between His experience and ours is that He went through this process without ever failing to conform to the image of God; that is, without sin (Hebrews 4:15). In every situation in which He was tested, He made the right choices; He passed the test.
:great: