Apostolic Truth Questions

[yosemite]

(A rule of thumb that has benefited me: Whenever the Pharisees, Sadducees, and I agree on anything; that's a good sign I need to re-examine my understanding. I just might be missing what the Bible really says.)


so your saying you agree on only some things that sadducees and pharisees agree on?
they also didnt think Jesus was God, or even on the same level!!

i think we would be better off if we didnt get into this. you know how i beleive  and i you!!      -yo

[onli-one-jehovi]

Good idea.  Round 4,875,321 about the godhead does not interest me in the least. 

We'll bandy about some other topic.   

ciao

[mesipie]

ok...so what do u each believe...im confused...who believes 3 and who believes 1?

[yosemite]

i beleive in the one and only and will venture no more.

[mesipie]

hey...oj...did u usta go by another name?

[onli-one-jehovi]

Posted by: *mesipie*: ok...so what do u each believe...im confused...who believes 3 and who believes 1?


Posted by: yosemite: i beleive in the one and only and will venture no more.  


As do I, Yo. That's been made more than plain numerous times here. I'm just no longer hung up over terminology.   :grin:

BTW, I was being facetious with the number count. It seems like so many Apostolics are fixated on the godhead to the extent of tunnelvision. Any conversation that is different or challenges denominal teaching, is instantly sidelined to "oneness vs trinity". This happens over and over regardless of the topic.

My brother Yo is simply responding the way taught w/o having to deal with what the scriptures actually mean. That's just the way it is.   

I keep hoping that eventually, he - and others - will grow out of that. 

[onli-one-jehovi]

hey...oj...did u usta go by another name?

Nope. Been the same from the beginning.  Comes from a puppet character I was going to use parodying 'Star Wars'.

[titushome]

As Man, Jesus had a God-given will that had to be brought under subjection to the Will of God, His Father. Just as our self-wills do. That's what scripture means to be "dead to self". Did not Jesus repeatedly say – "Not my will but thine"?  Same thing.

Jesus didn't glorify Himself in the sense of seeking fame and recognition. He repeatedly told the healed to "Tell no one". He refused to blow trumpets or make a big fanfare at His arrival. He told the crowds it was God doing the work and not Himself. He did not seek the spotlight.

Both concepts are everywhere in the gospels and scripture. Just as Jesus referencing God as His Father. This isn't a religious addition centuries later. This is a direct identifier by Jesus Christ. In fact, the Pharisees were also offended at His words. The concept of God being relational as "Father" was beyond them. They too thought they were protecting their beliefs....

Jesus Christ - the Messiah, the Savior of the world – called God, His Father; and God – Yahweh, the Creator of all things – called Jesus, His Son. Can it get any plainer? Relationship, not Godship.

Exactly.

As far as not making "a big fanfare at His arrival," the only exception I know of is His entry into Jerusalem riding a donkey.  And He did that to identify Himself as the Messiah, which in turn pointed back to the God who sent Him.

[yosemite]

Posted by: *mesipie*: ok...so what do u each believe...im confused...who believes 3 and who believes 1?


Posted by: yosemite: i beleive in the one and only and will venture no more.  


As do I, Yo. That's been made more than plain numerous times here. I'm just no longer hung up over terminology.   :grin:

BTW, I was being facetious with the number count. It seems like so many Apostolics are fixated on the godhead to the extent of tunnelvision. Any conversation that is different or challenges denominal teaching, is instantly sidelined to "oneness vs trinity". This happens over and over regardless of the topic.

My brother Yo is simply responding the way taught w/o having to deal with what the scriptures actually mean. That's just the way it is.   

I keep hoping that eventually, he - and others - will grow out of that. 

ooj and titushome, for one i do actually deal with what scripture means and follow it to the letter,secondly i hope i never grow out of the truth!! i could explain, but you already know all the answers i would give so it is pointless if yall will not listen. i'll quit casting my pearls!! ohh and thirdly, i like my tunnel vision.     it keeps my eyes set on the goal, the target, the reason. so i'll just keep my eyes set on scripture and the glory land way!!         (broad is the path, maybe the vision too!)

i already said i think we need to drop it!!

[mesipie]

sorry...wasnt tryin to stir yall up...

[titushome]

ooj and titushome, for one i do actually deal with what scripture means and follow it to the letter,secondly i hope i never grow out of the truth!!

Yo, please note that those statements were not among the ones I quoted from OOJ as being ones I agree with.  While we may come to different conclusions about the meaning of some of the Scriptures, I do believe you're doing your sincere best to understand what they mean.  I encourage you to never stop growing and learning new things in the Lord - there's nothing more important than your personal relationship with Him.

i already said i think we need to drop it!!

Well, this is a discussion forum.  If you're tired of the discussion, no one is forcing you to participate.

[yosemite]

BTW, I was being facetious with the number count. It seems like so many Apostolics are fixated on the godhead to the extent of tunnelvision. Any conversation that is different or challenges denominal teaching, is instantly sidelined to "oneness vs trinity". This happens over and over regardless of the topic.

 
i'm not the apostolic scape goat for the trinitarians or the self enlightened ones or the just beleive group!!
     

I encourage you to never stop growing and learning new things in the Lord - there's nothing more important than your personal relationship with Him.
Well, this is a discussion forum.  If you're tired of the discussion, no one is forcing you to participate.

i agree, no one is forcing me but who is asking the questions of me and talking of me?
so i restate this again as far as this issue is concerned it would be better left alone.
but if so desired i could give all scripture i have found on the one God head. we can get into baptism even. but what is the point? we will only go in circles again!!
( i'd be glad to give chp. and verse,gonna be a long post though.)
i got all the encouragement i need and i dont stop in the word, but i will not be sidetracked.                   i understand quite a bit of the word, thanks.             -yo

[Brother Dad]

Hello Brother Yo, Hope all is well.  Remember what I told you, you can not show a blind man anything.  Those who chose to stand by and try to teach false doctrine of a trinity are lost and we know what the Bible says.  If this Gospel be hid it is hid to those who are lost.  Who the god of this world has blinded.  So I advise you to leave those you know will not receive the truth along.  What fellowship has light with darkness.  Truth divides, and  separates.  Some are nothing more than trouble makers and I don't care if they like me or not. Jesus said we would be hated for His name sake.  Not hated because of a trinity that was dream up by some half serving ungodly men after people started drifting away from truth.  The Bible say ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.  It is useless to try and discuss truth with those who refuse it.  Hang tight and just keep praying.  God will show the world who He really is when ever knee shall bow.  You know Benny Hinn says there is nine in the godhead.  He says they are distinct persons.  Each person has a body, soul, and spirit.  Three times three is nine.  He said this on TBN. Trash Broadcasting Network.  But I gues if we start with one and get three then why not nine or more.  If you going to be wrong might as well go way out there.  I encourage you to stop responding to these guys that want to stir the pot.  I writing this to you to let you know I am here for you man.

[onli-one-jehovi]

sorry...wasnt tryin to stir yall up...

You didn't stir anything up. This just proves the point. Happens all the time.  *** sigh***

[onli-one-jehovi]

As Man, Jesus had a God-given will that had to be brought under subjection to the Will of God, His Father. Just as our self-wills do. That's what scripture means to be "dead to self". Did not Jesus repeatedly say – "Not my will but thine"?  Same thing.

Jesus didn't glorify Himself in the sense of seeking fame and recognition. He repeatedly told the healed to "Tell no one". He refused to blow trumpets or make a big fanfare at His arrival. He told the crowds it was God doing the work and not Himself. He did not seek the spotlight.

Both concepts are everywhere in the gospels and scripture. Just as Jesus referencing God as His Father. This isn't a religious addition centuries later. This is a direct identifier by Jesus Christ. In fact, the Pharisees were also offended at His words. The concept of God being relational as "Father" was beyond them. They too thought they were protecting their beliefs....

Jesus Christ - the Messiah, the Savior of the world – called God, His Father; and God – Yahweh, the Creator of all things – called Jesus, His Son. Can it get any plainer? Relationship, not Godship.

Exactly.

As far as not making "a big fanfare at His arrival," the only exception I know of is His entry into Jerusalem riding a donkey.  And He did that to identify Himself as the Messiah, which in turn pointed back to the God who sent Him.

**forgot about that one. Good point. **

[onli-one-jehovi]

ooj and titushome, for one i do actually deal with what scripture means and follow it to the letter,secondly i hope i never grow out of the truth!!

Yo, please note that those statements were not among the ones I quoted from OOJ as being ones I agree with.  While we may come to different conclusions about the meaning of some of the Scriptures, I do believe you're doing your sincere best to understand what they mean.  I encourage you to never stop growing and learning new things in the Lord - there's nothing more important than your personal relationship with Him.

* ditto *

[onli-one-jehovi]

** Yo, if I've offended you, I apologize. Like Titus said, this is a discussion forum. We each post our opinions/understandings/questions and await others to do the same. Nothing personal against anyone. Looking back from post 59, you and Titus were pretty much the only ones replying. Who else was I supposed to direct comments to? It's not like I plucked your name out of thin air and added it to the conversation.

With that in mind, my brother, I shall now reply. You're welcome to participate or not.

[onli-one-jehovi]

i got all the encouragement i need and i dont stop in the word, but i will not be sidetracked.                   i understand quite a bit of the word, thanks.             -yo

**No one is trying to discourage or sidetrack anyone. We all need to grow in our understanding of the word, too. The sidetrack spoken of here has nothing to do with leaving the truth. It has to do with the defensive reflexes to convert any topic into a "oneness vs trinity" issue. The sidetrack is seeing "trinity", and "self-enlightened ones" and "just believers" when it isn't even there. Has nothing to do with discrediting someone's personal walk with God, or trying to discourage them.

[onli-one-jehovi]

[i'm not the apostolic scape goat for the trinitarians or the self enlightened ones or the just beleive group!!

No one is trying to make you a scape goat. Why do you feel the need to divide the Body into groups? Is Christ divided?

I call you brother - even when we disagree.

[onli-one-jehovi]

ooj and titushome, for one i do actually deal with what scripture means and follow it to the letter,secondly i hope i never grow out of the truth!! i could explain, but you already know all the answers i would give so it is pointless if yall will not listen. i'll quit casting my pearls!! ohh and thirdly, i like my tunnel vision.     it keeps my eyes set on the goal, the target, the reason. so i'll just keep my eyes set on scripture and the glory land way!!         (broad is the path, maybe the vision too!)

i already said i think we need to drop it!!

I accidently erased my answer for this. Let me try again.

***************************
1... Then why does Jesus' {or anyone elses'} terminology of "Father" set off a "trinity defense mechanism"?  Could it be nothing more than an automomic reflex encoded by denominal teaching? Looking back at the posts, you said they were ok except for the trinity part. Titus asked where you got the trinity from. Who then, sidetracked to "oneness vs trinity"? And why? Autonomic reflex?

I know you walk daily with God and study His Word. That's how we learn. It is progressive and on-going. How we understood *here* should be deeper *there*. That's maturity. We are repeatedly told to conform to the image of Christ and to put on His mind. There has to be change in our understanding.

2...I hope you never grow out of the truth either. No one is trying to circumvent that. But everything not understood or even believed today is necessarily false. Do we seek out in the word the Spirit or the letter? We are told to try everything in the Spirit, for the Spirit brings life.

3... Tunnel vision for Heaven is a good thing. Setting our face like a flint to reach the other side. Tunnel vision for denominal teaching is a bad thing. Blinds us to what God may be doing outside of our connections. The Jewish priesthood had tunnel vision regarding the Messiah. They expected a conqueroring King, like David, to come down and free them from the Romans. And they were right about that. Instead, that led to them missing Jesus. Oh, a few did get past the autonomic reflexes, but most did not. Jesus chided them for missing the hour of their visitation.

The point here is that tunnel vision may just be a detriment to seeing the whole picture. We need to be able to see Jesus, even when He works outside of our box.

4... Just because one may understand differently or more than another on some matters - does not make them a swine.

[titushome]

Good posts, OOJ.

Concerning oneness vs. trinity in this thread, the fact of the matter is that no one here has been professing or defending trinitarian doctrine.  The references to the Father have alluded time and time again to the words that came from Jesus' own mouth.  We need to seek to understand what Jesus was talking about when He referred to Himself, His Father, and the relationship between them.

[yosemite]

 

[onli-one-jehovi]

Good idea. Let's talk about something different.   


The title of this thread is: Apostilic Truth Questions.  So...


Is Apostolic Truth different than Biblical Truth? 

[yosemite]

i want to believe theres no difference. for one that is why it is called apostolic. we follow the apostles teachings and Jesus taught the apostles.

does your question go any deeper than that? care to elaborate? example?


                                           -yo

[Brother Dad]

Good idea. Let's talk about something different.   


The title of this thread is: Apostilic Truth Questions.  So...


Is Apostolic Truth different than Biblical Truth? 

The Bible definition of Apostolic Truth Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;  Beleive it or be lost. 

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Beleive or be lost

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Beleive or be lost

1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.  Beleive it or be lost.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.48 And ye are witnesses of these things.  Beleive or be lost

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.  Beleive or be lost

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Beleive it or be lost.

2 John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Beleive it or your will be lost.

Apostolic Truth is Bible truth anything else is false doctrine.