Apostolic Truth Questions

[onli-one-jehovi]

Sorry. Rejectors of Christ cannot be compared to Receivers of Christ. That's taking religion a little too far.

Problem is, we disagree on the definition of "receivers of Christ".  As far as I'm concerned, someone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38 is no more "saved" than a Muslim. 

Also, there will be many who have "received Christ" who will be rejected in front of Him.  They will contend they were His children, but He will reject them.  Is that rejection anymore final than the rejection the Muslim, Buddhist or idolator will receive?

Lost is lost, Jerry.  We just disagree where God draws that line.

I've never in my life met a "trinitarian" christian who worshiped anyone other than the Lord Jesus Christ

I've met more than I care to count. 

If there is the recognition of ANOTHER PERSON who is God besides Jesus Christ, then I believe that is idolatry.  The trinity doctrine does not allow for the worship of Jesus Christ as the ONE AND ONLY GOD.  There is ALWAYS at least one "other person" until they remember the HG and then there's that "3rd" guy, too.     If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian.  And, again, it is not the title that saves or damns; it is the belief and practice that does.

Also, there will be many who have "received Christ" who will be rejected in front of Him.  They will contend they were His children, but He will reject them.  Is that rejection anymore final than the rejection the Muslim, Buddhist or idolator will receive?

But why were they rejected? Jesus plainly tells them - and us - yet I do not see "Because you didn't believe I was God" in there.

Also, only Believers{receivers of Jesus the Messiah} stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ. Non-Believers{rejectors of Jesus the Messiah} stand before the White Throne Judgment of God.

So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

[Backseat Radio]

Problem is, we disagree on the definition of "receivers of Christ".  As far as I'm concerned, someone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38 is no more "saved" than a Muslim. 

Here's where I would have issues with the traditional Oneness Pentecostal view point.  Obedience to Acts 2:38 is simply repenting and being baptized.  Those are the only commands given in that verse. the last part "ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" is a promise to those who do obey.

[OGIA]

Sorry. Rejectors of Christ cannot be compared to Receivers of Christ. That's taking religion a little too far.

Problem is, we disagree on the definition of "receivers of Christ".  As far as I'm concerned, someone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38 is no more "saved" than a Muslim. 

Also, there will be many who have "received Christ" who will be rejected in front of Him.  They will contend they were His children, but He will reject them.  Is that rejection anymore final than the rejection the Muslim, Buddhist or idolator will receive?

Lost is lost, Jerry.  We just disagree where God draws that line.

I've never in my life met a "trinitarian" christian who worshiped anyone other than the Lord Jesus Christ

I've met more than I care to count. 

If there is the recognition of ANOTHER PERSON who is God besides Jesus Christ, then I believe that is idolatry.  The trinity doctrine does not allow for the worship of Jesus Christ as the ONE AND ONLY GOD.  There is ALWAYS at least one "other person" until they remember the HG and then there's that "3rd" guy, too.     If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian.  And, again, it is not the title that saves or damns; it is the belief and practice that does.

Also, there will be many who have "received Christ" who will be rejected in front of Him.  They will contend they were His children, but He will reject them.  Is that rejection anymore final than the rejection the Muslim, Buddhist or idolator will receive?

But why were they rejected? Jesus plainly tells them - and us - yet I do not see "Because you didn't believe I was God" in there.

"Why" they were rejected was not the point.  The point is that there will be "receivers of Christ" rejected as totally as the Muslim and idolator -- rejectors of Christ -- because they did not worship the Father in spirit and in truth. And, bottom line is we disagree on what defines someone who has received Christ.  There is no way to come to any common ground on this.

Also, "because you didn't believe I was God" is not what I'm talking about.  I've not met one trinitarian who didn't believe Jesus Christ was God.  They'd be foolish to admit such.  But, to worship another "person" OTHER THAN HIM is idolatry -- IMO a sure ticket to hell.

So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.

[OGIA]

Problem is, we disagree on the definition of "receivers of Christ".  As far as I'm concerned, someone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38 is no more "saved" than a Muslim. 

Here's where I would have issues with the traditional Oneness Pentecostal view point.  Obedience to Acts 2:38 is simply repenting and being baptized.  Those are the only commands given in that verse. the last part "ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" is a promise to those who do obey.

But, how is Acts 2:38 fulfilled in the examples we have in the book of Acts after the day of Pentecost?  There is always water baptism in the name of the Lord and the infilling of the HG evidenced by tongues.  That's why I say that this is obedience to Acts 2:38.

[onli-one-jehovi]

Thus, the bulk of the Church is biblically in error regarding baptism, and doesn't even realize it.


Is baptism in Jesus' name personal opinion or biblical truth? 

I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".


So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.   

Then I guess we can change my original statement to:

Thus, the bulk of the Church is biblically in error regarding baptism and the godhead, but doesn't even realize it.

[onli-one-jehovi]

The reason I make such a "deal" out of this, is because we cannot be so blindly arrogant to fool ourselves into believing only "us" are saved. Only "us" have the truth and God. That's the mistake the Jews made before and after Christ. Now, that mindset has been infected into the Body of Christ. Thousands of denominations testify eloquently.

When Paul came upon the men in Acts 19, he recognized them as Believers. He asked them "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?"

The key factor here is: since you believed. Paul was talking to recognized Believers in the Messiah. Not random spiritual folks who believed in "GOD". Believers in the Messiah. They just didn't know His name.

Same holds today. Rather than thinking "every other denomination is lost unbelievers", we should be thinking "have you received ________ since you believed?

Have you received:

the Holy Ghost... revelation of the Mighty God in Christ... baptism in Jesus' name... gift of healing... gift of tongues.... gift of prophecy.... gift of prophets... gift of helps.... increased faith in the Word.... etc.

The true lost need the cross. The true lost need the Savior. The true lost need the blood. The true lost need faith to believe.

The Body needs each other. The Body needs unity. The Body needs revival. The Body needs "since you believed." The Body needs the unleavened Word of God.

The Body doesn't need any more division. The time is soon upon us where denomination will not matter. All who stand in the testimony of Jesus will be in danger. All will be required to be willing to give their life. Literally.

So it's important to recognize the Body as Christ does. Not segregate ourselves in religious denominations.

[OGIA]

Thus, the bulk of the Church is biblically in error regarding baptism, and doesn't even realize it.


Is baptism in Jesus' name personal opinion or biblical truth? 

I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".


So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.   

Then I guess we can change my original statement to:

Thus, the bulk of the Church is biblically in error regarding baptism and the godhead, but doesn't even realize it.

You define the "church" differently than I and the word of God do, Jerry.  The Church of Jesus Christ not only has been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ but also baptizes in that manner.  A person is not in the Church (aka the body of Christ) until they are baptized this way.

So it's important to recognize the Body as Christ does. 

I agree.  And until his Name has been called over someone they are not a part of His Body.

[Brother Dad]

I agree.  And until his Name has been called over someone they are not a part of His Body.

Your are right and I refuse to compromise the Word of the Lord so that I can make some one fell good here on earth and them be lost in Glory.  Also in Acts 19 Paul ask if the had received the HG since they believed.  Not since they were saved.  And these the Bible tells us were followers of John not followers of Jesus Christ.

[onli-one-jehovi]

Thus, the bulk of the Church is biblically in error regarding baptism, and doesn't even realize it.


Is baptism in Jesus' name personal opinion or biblical truth? 

I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".


So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.   

Then I guess we can change my original statement to:

Thus, the bulk of the Church is biblically in error regarding baptism and the godhead, but doesn't even realize it.

You define the "church" differently than I and the word of God do, Jerry.  The Church of Jesus Christ not only has been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ but also baptizes in that manner.  A person is not in the Church (aka the body of Christ) until they are baptized this way.

So it's important to recognize the Body as Christ does. 

I agree.  And until his Name has been called over someone they are not a part of His Body.

I understand what you're saying. But, John, quit evading your statements. Look at what you said:


1... I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".

2... So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.   


Statement 1 says "no". Statement 2 says "yes".   Which is it?   That's the question I have for you.

[Brother Dad]

Anyone that denies that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the only Bible formula for baptism is denying Biblical truth and are leading people To be lost and their blood will be on their hands.  It is time to stand up for what is right and let the people know exactly what it will take to get to heaven.  Wishy washy so called People of the Name who will continue to try and find some way around it need to really get down and pray and fast.  God is a Spirit and not a person or persons.  I know many will not like it but there is only One Truth.  I know for a fact that if a person in a trinitarian church sees the truth  they will have to come out from among the false teaching of God being persons and leave that church or they will not be able to stand.  There will come a time that they will either have to take a stand for what is right or compromise the truth and say well as long as you do like the devils and beleive then you are saved. 

[onli-one-jehovi]

I agree.  And until his Name has been called over someone they are not a part of His Body.

Your are right and I refuse to compromise the Word of the Lord so that I can make some one fell good here on earth and them be lost in Glory.  Also in Acts 19 Paul ask if the had received the HG since they believed.  Not since they were saved.  And these the Bible tells us were followers of John not followers of Jesus Christ.

There's no one here trying to "compromise and make someone feel good".  I don't know where that came from.

Yes, Acts 19 is talking to John's followers. Yes, Acts 19 does say Paul asked about the Holy Ghost. Read the post again. Get past the obvious first level and look deeper in meaning.

I repeat:

The key factor here is: since you believed.  Since... after....following...   Talking about progression here. Line upon line.   Here a little - there a little.  

Every one of us have  "since you believed" revelations. Why is that so difficult to understand? Everything I have gained in Christ over my entire life, has been "since I believed". Nothing came instantaneously and fully. It took years of growth in Him.

But apparently, some were infused miraculously at their beginning and have nothing left to receive.  How sad. A lifetime of walking with the LORD and gaining nothing. No wonder others having a slower go at it remains inconceivable. It's beyond their scope of experience.

Yes we disagree on who's in the "Church". That's ok. I can live with that. Like so much here in life - we'll find out over there; if not over here.

Meanwhile, we still are family and need one another. Especially in the days approaching. I need all the Body I can find.

[onli-one-jehovi]

Anyone that denies that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the only Bible formula for baptism is denying Biblical truth and are leading people To be lost and their blood will be on their hands.  It is time to stand up for what is right and let the people know exactly what it will take to get to heaven.  Wishy washy so called People of the Name who will continue to try and find some way around it need to really get down and pray and fast.  God is a Spirit and not a person or persons.  I know many will not like it but there is only One Truth.  I know for a fact that if a person in a trinitarian church sees the truth  they will have to come out from among the false teaching of God being persons and leave that church or they will not be able to stand.  There will come a time that they will either have to take a stand for what is right or compromise the truth and say well as long as you do like the devils and beleive then you are saved. 

Brother, I honestly believe you do not understand a single thing I say. I can't talk to you, and I'm not going to argue with you. Let's just leave each other alone.

shalom

[Brother Dad]

 

Every one of us have  "since you believed" revelations. Why is that so difficult to understand? Everything I have gained in Christ over my entire life, has been "since I believed". Nothing came instantaneously and fully. It took years of growth in Him.

But apparently, some were infused miraculously at their beginning and have nothing left to receive.  How sad. A lifetime of walking with the LORD and gaining nothing. No wonder others having a slower go at it remains inconceivable. It's beyond their scope of experience.

Yes we disagree on who's in the "Church". That's ok. I can live with that. Like so much here in life - we'll find out over there; if not over here.

Meanwhile, we still are family and need one another. Especially in the days approaching. I need all the Body I can find.

Yes i agree with you will all learn things after birth.  But anything only half born is dead.  There must be a complete birth in order to have life.  After being born there must be growing in the Grace and Knowledge of our  Lord Jesus Christ.  That is one of the greatest things about teaching home Bible Studies, as I teach them I am ever learning things myself.  anyone that does not grow is stagnated and will begin to stink in time.  

I also agree we need each other in the body of Christ.  No member can function on it's own.  I have many brothers and sisters in the Church that does not see everything the way I do, but we are all built on the same foundation.  

[Brother Dad]

Anyone that denies that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the only Bible formula for baptism is denying Biblical truth and are leading people To be lost and their blood will be on their hands.  It is time to stand up for what is right and let the people know exactly what it will take to get to heaven.  Wishy washy so called People of the Name who will continue to try and find some way around it need to really get down and pray and fast.  God is a Spirit and not a person or persons.  I know many will not like it but there is only One Truth.  I know for a fact that if a person in a trinitarian church sees the truth  they will have to come out from among the false teaching of God being persons and leave that church or they will not be able to stand.  There will come a time that they will either have to take a stand for what is right or compromise the truth and say well as long as you do like the devils and beleive then you are saved. 

Brother, I honestly believe you do not understand a single thing I say. I can't talk to you, and I'm not going to argue with you. Let's just leave each other alone.

shalom

I will continue to stand up for the Oneness of God and the truth as the Bible teaches it.  There is but one way to get to heaven.  I have no problem leaving you yourself along but I will stand up for truth.

[Backseat Radio]

But, how is Acts 2:38 fulfilled in the examples we have in the book of Acts after the day of Pentecost?  There is always water baptism in the name of the Lord and the infilling of the HG evidenced by tongues.  That's why I say that this is obedience to Acts 2:38.

Here are some conversion accounts that only show belief/repentance and baptism in the account in Acts
The ethopian eunuch (acts 8:29-39)
Lydia (Acts 16:14-15)
The Jailer (Acts 16:27-34)
Crispus and many in Corinth (Acts 18:8 )



Here are some cases in Acts that its refered to that they received the Spirit or would receive the Spirit but you don't find recorded that they spoke in tongues

The crowd Peter preached to on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41)
Samaria (Acts 8:17)
Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:17)

[Brother Dad]

But, how is Acts 2:38 fulfilled in the examples we have in the book of Acts after the day of Pentecost?  There is always water baptism in the name of the Lord and the infilling of the HG evidenced by tongues.  That's why I say that this is obedience to Acts 2:38.

Here are some conversion accounts that only show belief/repentance and baptism in the account in Acts
The ethopian eunuch (acts 8:29-39)
Lydia (Acts 16:14-15)
The Jailer (Acts 16:27-34)
Crispus and many in Corinth (Acts 18:8 )



Here are some cases in Acts that its refered to that they received the Spirit or would receive the Spirit but you don't find recorded that they spoke in tongues

The crowd Peter preached to on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41)
Samaria (Acts 8:17)
Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:17)

We know first of all the the Apostles all taught one message for everyone.  Whether we see a full account of it each time or not.  We understand every detail is not spelled out on every instance that is shown, just as Acts 2:41 does not say how they were baptized.  However we know how the Apostles would have done it.   As far as Saul in Acts 9 whose name was changed to Paul we know he said He spoke in tongues.  And for Samaria in Chapter 18 we know that Simon saw something happened when the people received the Holy Ghost for he wanted to pay them for the power to be able to lay hands on people and get the same results.

Truly receiving the Holy Ghost is a gift from God.  How could we say we love Him and then refuse His gift.  I do believe people try to make it hard for people to get the Holy Ghost.  But if a person truly repents and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, they will receive the Holy Ghost.  It may be right away or it may be ten years down the road but God will not let them die without the Holy Ghost.  Once they have truly repented and been baptised then they have done all they have to do.  God gives the Holy Ghost.  I am saying they just need to worship God and let God fill them in His time.  And when they receive the Holy Ghost they will speak in tongues but I may never hear them.  But God's plan is the same for everyone.  He is a fair and just God.  I think sometimes we discourage people from getting the Holy Ghost because we make them feel like it is something they have to do.  No one can fill themselves with the Holy Ghost it comes from God.

[Backseat Radio]

We know first of all the the Apostles all taught one message for everyone. 

I'll agree the Apostles taught the same message to everyone.  That message according to what I've seen in scripture consisted of these things...

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ
repentance
remission of sins

[OGIA]

I understand what you're saying. But, John, quit evading your statements. Look at what you said:


1... I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".

2... So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.   


Statement 1 says "no". Statement 2 says "yes".   Which is it?   That's the question I have for you.

Jerry,

I really don't appreciate you telling me that I am evading your question.  Like I'm, in some way, scared of your accusations?  Nah.  I can't find where it is even close to being an evasion of your question.

Listen up once more: a person who worships Jesus Christ as the one God of eternity is NOT a trinitarian by definition.  If he/she has believed and obeyed the Gospel and lives a life pleasing to God, he/she is not lost!

Any questions?  :grin:

[onli-one-jehovi]

We know first of all the the Apostles all taught one message for everyone. 

I'll agree the Apostles taught the same message to everyone.  That message according to what I've seen in scripture consisted of these things...

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ
repentance
remission of sins

I see what you're saying and agree. Jesus' command was that repentance and remission of sin be preached, beginning at Jerusalem. That is the 'too good to be true news' of the gospel. The Holy Ghost becomes the gift believing adherents should {John 8:38-39} and shall {Acts 2:38-39} receive. Some receive immediately, while others take longer. Either way, the "receiver" has already become part of the Body of Christ and is saved from their sins.

It is my opinion, that just as much of the professing and believing Church will fall away into apostasy; so too will much of the believing and professing Church be filled with the Spirit. Many who are considered "lost" today, will be suddenly endued with power from on high. Sometimes we forget that what is called the Charismatic Movement, was nothing more than the Holy Ghost -so cherished among Pentecostals - sweeping thru traditionally non-Spirit filled christendom. Now it is nothing to see Baptists, Catholics, etc lifting hands, clapping hands, and speaking in tongues. This was virtually unheard of until the 1970's -1980's.

The HG is a gift for the Church - and the Church only. We need to preach it and be like Paul in Acts 19: Have you received since you believed?

I too trust the Lord to be more than willing and able to fill HIS people with the Spirit or whatever else HE deems necessary. It is only up to us to provide the knowledge. We can't demand acceptance nor denial in the Body based on that.

[titushome]

I'll agree the Apostles taught the same message to everyone.  That message according to what I've seen in scripture consisted of these things...

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ
repentance
remission of sins

We also know that Jesus commanded His apostles to teach people all the things He had taught them.  So it can be inferred that since He commanded them to baptize those who believe, they baptized them; and we have Scriptural examples of this being fulfilled.  We can also infer that since He promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks for it, His followers proclaimed this promise as well; and we have Scriptural examples of this being fulfilled.  And since Jesus spent most of His teaching on life in the kingdom of God, and on describing the kind of people who are citizens of God's kingdom, then we can infer that Jesus' disciples taught these things to others also.

It's all one message, one Truth.  There are no "minimum requirements" to fulfill; no checklists; no Option A, Option B, Option C.  Just the good news that Jesus brought us.

[onli-one-jehovi]

I understand what you're saying. But, John, quit evading your statements. Look at what you said:


1... I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".

2... So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.   


Statement 1 says "no". Statement 2 says "yes".   Which is it?   That's the question I have for you.

Jerry,

I really don't appreciate you telling me that I am evading your question.  Like I'm, in some way, scared of your accusations?  Nah.  I can't find where it is even close to being an evasion of your question.

Listen up once more: a person who worships Jesus Christ as the one God of eternity is NOT a trinitarian by definition.  If he/she has believed and obeyed the Gospel and lives a life pleasing to God, he/she is not lost!

Any questions?  :grin:

Sorry John. It did seem like evasion. My error.  

I do still have a question:

Since most "trinitarians" are baptized according to Mt 28:19, is the above person still lost?  

[OGIA]

I understand what you're saying. But, John, quit evading your statements. Look at what you said:


1... I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".

2... So,  If the proclaimed trinitarian worships Jesus Christ as the One and only God of heaven, with NO multiplicity of persons (HE, Jesus Christ, being the Father incarnate), then that person is NOT a trinitarian... receives the Holy Ghost and lives a godly life.... are they saved and in the Church?

Yes, I believe they are.   


Statement 1 says "no". Statement 2 says "yes".   Which is it?   That's the question I have for you.

Jerry,

I really don't appreciate you telling me that I am evading your question.  Like I'm, in some way, scared of your accusations?  Nah.  I can't find where it is even close to being an evasion of your question.

Listen up once more: a person who worships Jesus Christ as the one God of eternity is NOT a trinitarian by definition.  If he/she has believed and obeyed the Gospel and lives a life pleasing to God, he/she is not lost!

Any questions?  :grin:

Sorry John. It did seem like evasion. My error.  

I do still have a question:

Since most "trinitarians" are baptized according to Mt 28:19, is the above person still lost?  

The person who has the revelation of Jesus Christ as the ONLY GOD will NOT accept baptism in titles.  Period.  That help?

[onli-one-jehovi]

Not really. I know many christians who accept the godhood of Jesus but have not baptized according to Acts.

[Brother Dad]

Not really. I know many christians who accept the godhood of Jesus but have not baptized according to Acts.

No there is no such thing of a christtian who has not taken on tne name in water baptism.  Truth is truth anything else is comprise.  I do know many good people in the trinity church who are deceived, they live good clean moral lifes but they must obey the True Word of God in order to be saved.  If we tell them other wise their blood will be on our hands.

[Brother Dad]

We know first of all the the Apostles all taught one message for everyone. 

I'll agree the Apostles taught the same message to everyone.  That message according to what I've seen in scripture consisted of these things...

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ
repentance
remission of sins

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
KJV