Apostolic Truth Questions

[yosemite]

Thus, the bulk of the Church is biblically in error regarding baptism, and doesn't even realize it.


Is baptism in Jesus' name personal opinion or biblical truth? 

I can't answer your question, because I seem to also disagree with you on what the "Christian Church" is and who is in it.  I don't consider anything or anyone being the "church" that and who does not practice water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, my response to your premise would be that the two don't compare because only those who are absolutely correct about water baptism are "the Church".

 
PS: I read Bro. Dad's post after I posted mine, but I would have most likely just quoted his and given that as my answer since they are very similar.  you can't compare water baptism in Jesus' name with tithing and say the "bulk of the church" practices it wrong when I don't agree with you who is IN said Church.  I happen to believe tithing is not only a NT principle, but a godly principle that has endured for millenia.  I don't believe it is an issue of salvation, in and of itself; but I do question someone who doesn't give at least 10% of their firstfruits as to where their heart is.  And I believe it is "heart matters" that are salvational.  The acts we commit or don't commit for God are merely products of the heart.

[titushome]

No OOJ you have not proven tihes wrong just that you refuse to pay them.

OOJ has never said that he does not give 10% (or more) to God, so to say that he "refuses{s} to pay them" is wrong.

The argument he's making is that he doesn't believe God requires 10% from NT Christians; rather, he believes we should give whatever and whenever we feel the Lord directs us to give - whether it's 10%, 50%, 90% or 0%*.  Because the truth is, 100% of what we own belongs to Him anyway, and we are to use it or give it away as He directs us.

*And yes, there is a time when it would be appropriate to give nothing: if someone, say a missionary or an evangelist, is urging me to give money to their work - one that is ostensibly of and for the Lord - but I feel the Lord telling me not to give, because their work is not of Him; then I should give nothing.

[Brother Dad]

To try and push something that is a personal view even if you think you are right and then get bad because someone else sees it totally different and start name calling is wrong.  I attempted to go back to the post where OOJ told how he gave to the Church but was unable at this time to find it.  It is no skin off my back, or money in my pocket if people do not wish to pay tithes.  The point is we must be saved.

No one can build a house without first having the foundation.  No one can be in the Church of the Living God without Repentance, Water Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.  Then God will at some point fill them with the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues.  Then after you are in the Church you do the following.

Phil 2:12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

It was not I that brought up the need to pay tithes, it was not I that called paying or not paying teaching false doctrine.  I teach the Whole Bible from cover to cover, however I tell everyone to first get the foundation right.  I am not near as concerned about them understanding tithes, tribulation, standards, or the coming of the Lord.  All these things they can grow and work out with God in fear and trembling to get them right.  But if they die and I have not shown them the foundation I am wrong.  To let a trinitarian think he is saved is wrong on my part.  To let them feel like they are part of the body is to deceive them.  I am not saying be ugly but we must somehow let them know the right way.  So what I would like to do now is ask for some suggestions of how you would approach a person in a trinitarian church with the plan of salvation.  How about those who have repented and have received the HG, how will you teach them Jesus name baptism.  Please do not call out Church names or peoples name just how would you handle these situations we face every day.

[Brother Dad]

I personally do not pre-set any percentage. It would be a combinaton of the above.  Sometimes it goes in the plate, sometimes straight to the needy hand. Sometimes it is nothing at all. It depends upon my response to the HG and not my response to the habit of non-chalantly throwing in some bucks. I desire to give exactly where the HG wants it to go. That's not always easy for me.

Here is the post I was looking for earlier for Brother Titushome where OOJ does not beleive in 10%.  But I stress I do not wish to see this issue brought back up as it seems to stir up bad feelings and results in name calling.

[titushome]

To let a trinitarian think he is saved is wrong on my part.  To let them feel like they are part of the body is to deceive them.  I am not saying be ugly but we must somehow let them know the right way.

Sorry, but I have to ask: what in the Bible tells you that someone who believes in the erroneous doctrine of trinitarianism is not saved, or not part of the Body?

I know a man who was baptized in Jesus' name, and is full of the Holy Spirit, and is doing his best to live a Godly life and grow in God - but he believes in the so-called trinity.  How would this one error result in him not being saved?

So what I would like to do now is ask for some suggestions of how you would approach a person in a trinitarian church with the plan of salvation.  How about those who have repented and have received the HG, how will you teach them Jesus name baptism.

How?  I just talk with them about it.  I share with them what I've learned from my own studies of the Scriptures.  Seeing how they've by their own admission dedicated their lives to Jesus, they're usually pretty open to talking about what the Bible says.

In the case of my friend, he's already obeyed what Apostolics call "the plan of salvation" - so there's no need to explain it to him, or urge him to follow it.  Regarding his trinitarian belief, we've talked about it, and I'm sure we'll talk about it again.  He's studied the Scriptures for himself, and for now, that's the conclusion that he's reached.  He knows I see it differently.

[OGIA]

Sorry, but I have to ask: what in the Bible tells you that someone who believes in the erroneous doctrine of trinitarianism is not saved, or not part of the Body?

I believe the Bible is clear that idolatry will send someone to hell.  The true doctrine of the trinity is about worshipping more than one person who is God.  How is that not idolatry?  Is the trinity any different than worshipping one of the Hindu gods?  If so, how?  Just because someone claims to worship the "Christian God", do they really?  If they worship another Person besides Jesus Christ as God, are they worshipping in truth --- one of the requirements by the Father for true worship?  If it's not "true" worship, will He accept it?

I do believe there are variants of beliefs in the trinity (just as there are in Oneness), but I've IMO false doctrine is that which does not exalt Jesus Christ...and HIM ALONE.....as the One God of eternity.  Even if someone says they believe that but then turns around and says "but then there's also the Father, yet they are one", I still don't think they are worshipping one God.

I know a man who was baptized in Jesus' name, and is full of the Holy Spirit, and is doing his best to live a Godly life and grow in God - but he believes in the so-called trinity.  How would this one error result in him not being saved?

Is idolatry alone enough to send someone to hell?  I think it is.   

[titushome]

I believe the Bible is clear that idolatry will send someone to hell.

Absolutely true.

I do believe there are variants of beliefs in the trinity (just as there are in Oneness), but I've IMO false doctrine is that which does not exalt Jesus Christ...and HIM ALONE.....as the One God of eternity.  Even if someone says they believe that but then turns around and says "but then there's also the Father, yet they are one", I still don't think they are worshipping one God.

Here's another way of looking at it: trinitarians, as far as I know, worship the God who has revealed Himself to us in and through the person of Jesus Christ.  How then are they failing to exalt Him as "the One God of eternity"?

The nature of God far exceeds the capacity of the human mind to understand.  Oneness beliefs and trinitarianism are two modern attempts to explain Him; and in my opinion, oneness is much closer to the truth of understanding who and what God is, and how He is who He is through Jesus Christ.  But the error of trinitarianism is not a fatal one, because it still acknowledges God in Christ, and Christ as God.

Trying to understand how God could be both Father in Heaven and Son on earth is no small undertaking.  Take note of the all the times Jesus addresses the Father, or makes reference to the Father.  Is Jesus talking to Himself, or referring to Himself in the third person?  To whom did Jesus pray?  Is Jesus schizo, or what?  These are difficult questions to answer, and it's no small wonder that so many in trying to understand have fallen into such errors as trinitarianism.

The true doctrine of the trinity is about worshipping more than one person who is God.  How is that not idolatry?  Is the trinity any different than worshipping one of the Hindu gods?  If so, how?

The error of belief in the "Christian" trinity is different from the error of believing in a false religion, because it still exalts Jesus alone as Lord and Christ.

Just because someone claims to worship the "Christian God", do they really?

Definitely not.  But of much greater significance than professing belief in the trinity is this: claiming to worship the "Christian God," but not walking in His ways.  Because by not walking in His ways, I am not with my life acknowledging Him as Lord and God.  This is true idolatry; this is truly what it means to follow after or serve a false god.

[Brother Dad]

Tinity doctrine is false doctrine.  God did not receive a knowledge of the triune God from God.  The Bible is full of One God scriptures.  If we do not help them to see the truth then they will be lost because of our failure.  Maybe the biggest problem is not that people can not figure out how God could be in heaven and also walking on earth in the form of Jesus Christ, but the problem comes in because people fail to realize that God is a Spirit and not a person or person.  Furthermore where is the heaven that God dwells there.  There can only be one truth either we have it or we don't.  The problem with the people staying in the trinity is they are staying with the mother harlot.  Anyone who truly repents and follows after Jesus Christ will see that there is but one not a trinity.  One God does not gives several different options on how we should believe.  The Bible is plan in the fact.  2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

[Brother Dad]

Seeing once again our conversations are going in a downward spiral I feel I should maybe change the way I put the question on  here.  The thing I would like to see discussed is how do different once approach someone in order to get a Bible Study started with them. 

[titushome]

Tinity doctrine is false doctrine....  If we do not help them to see the truth then they will be lost because of our failure....  There can only be one truth either we have it or we don't.  The problem with the people staying in the trinity is they are staying with the mother harlot.  Anyone who truly repents and follows after Jesus Christ will see that there is but one not a trinity.

You still haven't really answered my question: what in the Bible tells you that someone who believes in the erroneous doctrine of trinitarianism is not saved, or not part of the Body?

Yes, there is only one Truth; yes, trinitarianism is false doctrine.  But will this false doctrine prevent someone from entering into life with God?  Answer with Scripture, please.  There are many false doctrines out there: preterism, snake handling, tithing/not-tithing¹, the necessity of "attending church" on Sunday², etc.  I don't believe error in any of these areas will keep a person from living in God; though they will hamper that life, keeping that person from living fully the life God intends for them.

1 Since this issue has been a subject of heated debate in this very thread, I'll refrain for now from taking a position on it.
2 Just to clarify: we don't "attend church;" we ARE the Church.  And there's nothing in the Bible that says we have to assemble ourselves together at the same time every Sunday morning.

One God does not gives several different options on how we should believe.

Absolutely true.  But that still doesn't necessarily mean that someone who hasn't yet received the Truth concerning a particular issue is "lost."  Isn't each of us still at least partially in the dark concerning something?  Won't there always be something we don't perfectly understand?

[titushome]

Seeing once again our conversations are going in a downward spiral I feel I should maybe change the way I put the question on  here. 

By "downward spiral" are you referring to the fact that I don't completely agree with you?

[Brother Dad]

I do not think everyone has to agree with me.  A true Apostolic knows the scriptures are true and everything else is false.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 John 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Space nor time would permit me to post all the one God scriptures here.  But there can only be one truth. 

But I have another question I would like to ask.  Why is that some love to get on the Bible threads and try to debate an issue, but you never saw them on the Giving God Some Glory or they never start a thread about how good God is to them?  Just curious!!!!

Wonder what someone who needs to find the truth thinks when they see those who say they have it, but want to debate the very truth they claim to have.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Oneness either right or it is wrong.  There can not be two ways. 

Of course I could go on and on and on with scripture, but what would be the point.  All that it will do is cause the trinitarian to see that we Apostolics can not even agree and get along.  So I encourage those on here to stop trying to show how smart they may think they are and start using our time to bring some Glory to God.  For if at the end of the road I have proved my point at the cost of someone really seeing the Love of God in my life and them being lost, then I have really lost. 

I would add that if a person does not know how to properly teach a trinitarian the oneness of God leave it alone.  I can not begin to count the people that I have taught Bible Studies to who had someone before try to teach the them the Apostolic Doctrine.  I am not referring this to anyone person, just saying it is better not try and teach it if you don't fully know it.

2 Tim 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Are we in this for the betterment of the Kingdom or for the debating of a point.

[Somnic]

Hello.  This will be my first post on these forums, and will probably not be my last.  I was baptised on the 6th and received the Holy Ghost on the 13th, so I am fairly new to the word of God.  I believe in the One Godhead.  So that being said:

I do not think everyone has to agree with me.  A true Apostolic knows the scriptures are true and everything else is false.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 John 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The way I read these scriptures, says perfectly clear.  If you do not believe what is taught by the apostles and find it not to be "Truth" that you will not be accepted.  So I believe that those who believe in the "Trinity" do not believe in the "Truth", therefor will not be accepted.  I agree with Bro. Dad.  There is far too much debate on this "Trinity" and not enough praising God.

[onli-one-jehovi]

If we look historically back into the Book of Acts, chapter 15; we find exactly what Paul was dealing with in Galatians. It wasn't any deviation from oneness or support of any so-called trinity. It was adding to the grace of God to attain salvation. Paul was dealing with religious commands from the OT, being necessitated in the NT. This particular one happened to be circumcision.


Acts 15:1 - And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (5) But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them to keep the law of Moses. 

Some said you had to or be lost. Others said you need to just in case you won't be lost.

Apostolic Truth was at odds with Biblical Truth even then. 

[Brother Dad]

Once again why all the debates, where is the Praises of God?  Is it so hard to lift up Jesus Christ whom we all love so much?  Is it hard to Praise the one who died for us.  I am so thankful for all that God has done for me.  I am thankful for the way He provises our every need.  I have told people I believe I am the most blessed man alive.  God is so Good to me.

I refuse to even lower myself to get back into a debate that does not help anyone, but I will continue to lift up Jesus Christ.  So let us learn to love each other and assemble together.  For without debate the Bible plainly says we sin when we don't assemble together.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Cut it slice or dice it this in the proper context.  So let us find a place to assemble with our Brothers and Sister so we may encourage and lift up each other.

I love going to Church.

[Brother Dad]

If we look historically back into the Book of Acts, chapter 15; we find exactly what Paul was dealing with in Galatians. It wasn't any deviation from oneness or support of any so-called trinity. It was adding to the grace of God to attain salvation. Paul was dealing with religious commands from the OT, being necessitated in the NT. This particular one happened to be circumcision.


Acts 15:1 - And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (5) But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them to keep the law of Moses. 

Some said you had to or be lost. Others said you need to just in case you won't be lost.

Apostolic Truth was at odds with Biblical Truth even then. 

Have I ever posted how that God has given me two Cadillacs, or told how that God has sent me money in the mail time and time again.  Or have I told of all the many times that God has given me meals to eat when I had no money.  Or when I need to pay the power bill God always sends the money just in time.  I am so glad I serve the true and living God.  God is so awesome.  Anybody else got a testimony.

[Somnic]

I was in the Navy for 8 years.  When I joined the Navy I was a Southern Baptist.  When I was on my first submarine I sat in the Crews Mess (Mess Hall) and pondered why I believed in God.  I pondered this for a few hours.  Then I realized I believed because my family believed and it was kinda forced on my growing up.  Then I decided that I wouldn't believe anymore.  I didn't believe in God for 5 years.  Then I was stationed on the USS Texas.  A shipmate of mine talked to me on several occasions about the word of God and taught me things I never knew before.  This brought me back, to believing in god.  Though I believed, I wasn't living the life of a Christan.  I cussed like a sailor, didn't go to church, pretty much did what I wanted to.  I left the Navy and took my family to Kentucky, where my wifes family is.  After a few months of living here, me and my wife have separated and I'm taking it hard.

Well on the 6th I was sitting outside my house and God sent me someone to show me the way.  We talked for a bit and he asked me if I wanted to get baptised, and I told him yes.  So I was baptised at 0114 (1:14AM for you non military folk) in the morning that night, and I haven't felt better in all my life.  Then on the 13th, almost a week later I received the Holy Ghost.  I thank God everyday for finding me and turning my life around.  I praise him and always will.  I love and adore him.  He is my savior and I will never forget.  I will never again disbelieve in him.

This is my testimony.

[titushome]

I do not think everyone has to agree with me.  A true Apostolic knows the scriptures are true and everything else is false.

I agree that the Scriptures are true.  But the question is not about truth - in this case, truth regarding oneness/trinity - as we are all in agreement concerning that.  The question is whether someone who does not yet see this truth will not be "saved."

But I have another question I would like to ask.  Why is that some love to get on the Bible threads and try to debate an issue, but you never saw them on the Giving God Some Glory or they never start a thread about how good God is to them?  Just curious!!!!

I have started threads about how good God is to me, though it's been a while.  If you check, you might find some that haven't been cleared from the boards yet.  And it is true that I would do well to start such threads more often; one can never declare enough the goodness of God!

But this thread is not a praise and testimony thread; the topic of conversation is "Apostolic Truth Questions."  And you still have not answered my question: what in the Bible tells you that someone who believes in the erroneous doctrine of trinitarianism is not saved, or not part of the Body?  There is no question or debate here about the error of trinitarianism; the question is whether belief in this particular falsehood will cause a man to be lost to God.  Answer with Scripture, please.

If you do not wish to discuss this topic any longer, then feel free to start a praise and testimony thread in which you can discuss what you wish.  That way you will not detract from the focus of this thread.

Are we in this for the betterment of the Kingdom or for the debating of a point.

That's a fair question - one I must ask myself regularly.  I don't want to be guilty of participating in pointless debates.

I'm in it for the King and the Kingdom, brother.

Once again why all the debates, where is the Praises of God?  Is it so hard to lift up Jesus Christ whom we all love so much?  Is it hard to Praise the one who died for us.

Brother Dad, let me ask you a question: why is it that when you disagree with something I write, and say so, you are "standing up for truth" and "defending the faith;" yet when I disagree with something you write, and say so, I am merely "debating," or being contentious, or causing the conversation to take a "downward spiral," or whatever?

It is my hope that we as brothers will sharpen one another as iron sharpens iron - but for that to happen, the pieces of iron must strike one another; they must clash.  If we limit ourselves to discussing things on which we already agree, then no one will ever be sharpened, so to speak.

[bishopnl]

Brother Dad, let me ask you a question: why is it that when you disagree with something I write, and say so, you are "standing up for truth" and "defending the faith;" yet when I disagree with something you write, and say so, I am merely "debating," or being contentious, or causing the conversation to take a "downward spiral," or whatever?

Welcome to the world of Apostolic internet discussion boards...where everybody is defending the truth.   

[titushome]

Welcome to the world of Apostolic internet discussion boards...where everybody is defending the truth.  

Why don't you jump in? 

[bishopnl]

Welcome to the world of Apostolic internet discussion boards...where everybody is defending the truth.  

Why don't you jump in? 

That's kind of a loaded question....

I read from time to time....I've even gotten engaged in debate.  And I've had some of my beliefs solidified, and I had to reevaluate my position on others.  I agree with you that iron sharpens iron...and this is an internet discussion forum.  The point of discussions at all is to challenge, evaluate, and grow. 

Fact is, Truth is never afraid to be challenged...because if it is the Truth, it's got nothing to lose.  That's my two cents, anyway.

[OGIA]

Here's another way of looking at it: trinitarians, as far as I know, worship the God who has revealed Himself to us in and through the person of Jesus Christ.  How then are they failing to exalt Him as "the One God of eternity"?

But, do they worship the One God AS the Person Jesus Christ or as the 2nd person of the trinity?  If they chose "b", then they are not worshipping God in His fullest revelation.  They are worshipping another "part" of God, not God in fullness.

The nature of God far exceeds the capacity of the human mind to understand.  Oneness beliefs and trinitarianism are two modern attempts to explain Him; and in my opinion, oneness is much closer to the truth of understanding who and what God is, and how He is who He is through Jesus Christ.  But the error of trinitarianism is not a fatal one, because it still acknowledges God in Christ, and Christ as God.

Trying to understand how God could be both Father in Heaven and Son on earth is no small undertaking.  Take note of the all the times Jesus addresses the Father, or makes reference to the Father.  Is Jesus talking to Himself, or referring to Himself in the third person?  To whom did Jesus pray?  Is Jesus schizo, or what?  These are difficult questions to answer, and it's no small wonder that so many in trying to understand have fallen into such errors as trinitarianism.

Definitely not.  But of much greater significance than professing belief in the trinity is this: claiming to worship the "Christian God," but not walking in His ways.  Because by not walking in His ways, I am not with my life acknowledging Him as Lord and God.  This is true idolatry; this is truly what it means to follow after or serve a false god.

You didn't ask me about disobedience or how to explain the Father/Son relationship.  The points above are pertinent and dangerous, too; but that's not what you asked.  You asked, if I'm not mistaken, why trinitarians would be lost, right?  I pointed out that the true trinitarian doctrine is equal to idolatry, because it does not allow worship of Jesus Christ and Him alone as the One God. 

So, I stand by my beliefs: the trinitarian doctrine is idolatry.  Whoever is holding to it in the end will not be accepted by the Lord as His children.  He will no more accept them as He will the Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, narcissist or atheist.

[bishopnl]

So if I ask a repentant, baptized, Spirit-filled Trinitarian, do you believe Jesus Christ is the one true God, and beside him there is no other...and they answer yes, are they still going to hell?

[OGIA]

Doesn't sound like a trinitarian to me.   :grin:

[onli-one-jehovi]

Once again why all the debates, where is the Praises of God?  Is it so hard to lift up Jesus Christ whom we all love so much?  Is it hard to Praise the one who died for us.  I am so thankful for all that God has done for me.  I am thankful for the way He provises our every need.  I have told people I believe I am the most blessed man alive.  God is so Good to me.

I refuse to even lower myself to get back into a debate that does not help anyone, but I will continue to lift up Jesus Christ.  So let us learn to love each other and assemble together.  For without debate the Bible plainly says we sin when we don't assemble together.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Cut it slice or dice it this in the proper context.  So let us find a place to assemble with our Brothers and Sister so we may encourage and lift up each other.

I love going to Church.

I just had a flashback image of 60's hippies putting daisies in the gun barrels of the National Guard. 

Brother, we are assembled together. We do not have to have a physical building to meet in. We are the Church.

Discussion - not debate - lifts up. As mentioned, it is the iron sharpening itself that strengthens us.

If all that's ever eaten is milk, when will meat be palatable?

If all that's ever discussed is already understood, how will we learn?

I've noticed the topic has shifted {predictibly} to the comfortable milk of the godhead. Don't we already know this?