Hebrews 6

[Dew-Ax-238]

4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame


Ok what are your thoughts n these verses?  What does this mean?

[Melody]

mhpo:

There a point of no return.  But to understand it and know that it must line up with many more scriptures covering God's mercy and prodigal son etc. you have to realize there is a point in which you know God to an extent that to turn around is not a mere backsliding, it's not falling, it's becoming corrupted and choosing, with understanding, to tell God "no", to seek the evil/carnal things, knowing your end.  It's not a lack of faith, it's knowing and STILL wanting sin more. 

so many backslid cause of lack of faith or ignorance, I don't think that is the same cause often the idividual really does want to be right, but something's missing.

As hard as it is to believe, there will be some that do that in these last days, it's the elect.  The world is just gonna get more intense and the pressure greater to compromise.  We HAVE to have a made up mind and then seek to build a firm foundation.

I don't know that I really have anything to back all that up, but more of how it fits with the rest of the Bible.

[onli-one-jehovi]

Hebrews 6:6:If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

I see this as the crux of the matter. Tie in to Hebrews 10:17-18 & 26-27:

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

When a person initially comes to God and is born again from above - having the old Adamic nature replaced with the second Adamic nature - sins and iniquities are remitted by the blood. They no longer exist in this new creation. The penalty & consequences are generally not applied. Addictions are supernaturally removed, diseases supernaturally healed with little to no effects.

Yet for a saint to again return to sin, there is no promise of repercussions. God is merciful to restore, yet we see repeatedly His judgment upon them. The nicotine habiit takes effort to kick. Disease takes years of medical treatment. Trust and respect may never be fully restored. This is because the Cross of sacrifice has been knowingly defiled.

I believe a saint of God sins willingly. It may be just a split second of decision, but there is a moment when he/she can say no. The apostate {fallen away} are fully deceived into thinking all is well, and a quick little prayer will fix everything. Not necessarily. We need to be careful how far we choose to push the envelope.

[Raven180]

Studying the Greek, one will find some interesting things regarding this verse:

6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

I think it's important to try and understand the main components of the verse, especially from the Greek, if one is going to fully grasp what the author intends to say and/or intends for us to understand.

I see the main components as:

1.) Falling away
2.) Impossibility of Renewal unto Repentance (Stemming from verse 4)
3.) Crucifixion of the Son of God "afresh"
4.) Putting the Son of God to an "open shame"

What's interesting about this verse is that the original Greek seems to repeat itself. For example, the word "again" (palin in the Greek) means: anew, again, i.e. the renewal or repetition of an action. Meanwhile, the Greek word for "renew" (anakainizō) means simply to renew or renovate. Repentance in this context means what it always means: to think again/change one's mind.

Also interesting is that the Greek word for "crucify" (anastauroō in the Greek) is the same word for "afresh" just a few words later. (anastauroō is a compound word ana + stauroō. The first portion "ana" is a preposition and means in the midst, between, among, etc. and the second half means to stake or drive down stakes, to palisade; essentially it mean to crucify.)

Falling away in the Greek literally means to fall, slip aside, or deviate from the right path. It comes from the idea of descending from a higher place to a lower.

Finally, the "open shame" comes from the idea of literally setting up as a public example, to hold up to infamy, or to expose to public disgrace.

Now that we understand these concepts, I think it will be easier to understand what the author of Hebrews means in terms of someone falling away and the impossibility of repentance.

The person that "falls away" is, in a sense, literally descending from the heavenly places in which they sit with Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:6) into the realm of the flesh and an environment of spiritual darkness. Once upon a time, they were enlightened, and had experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which quickened their own spirit into the newness of life. Now, they are rejecting all of that for flesh, darkness, and deviation from righteousness, while at the same time somehow ridiculing or disgracing Jesus Christ, the Lord of Glory in public, whether by their words or their deeds (i.e. they are attempting to crucify Him again in the midst of or among other people. Crucifixion was designed to be a publically humiliating experience and punishment where victims were literally stripped naked, mocked, abused, and executed in front of their families, friends, and other passer-byes as a public example/spectacle).

While in this state, it is impossible for this person to be renewed unto repentance, i.e. see them once again continue in the repeated action of dying daily and consecrating themselves to God. They have descended into a place where repentance is not possible, as they blasphemously disgrace the Son of God in the process.

They are in a place where they are attempting to re-crucify and kill a sacrifice that will no longer, nor can again ever die (i.e. the Lamb of God). Since Jesus is alive and lives forevermore (Revelation 1:18), they have no more sacrifice/offering for sins (Hebrews 10:26). There is no substitutionary, expiatory atonement for them. The only real crucifixion that is taking place is against themselves.

Jesus died at His crucifixion. These people are now dying (not to their carnal nature/old man in order to be saved) but, because they are now in the flesh, are dying to their spiritual nature, i.e. the Holy Spirit, because the carnal mind is enmity with God; indeed to be carnally minded IS death (Romans 8:7 and Romans 8:6). They are no longer alive in the Spirit.

These are not people that make mistakes and struggle in their flesh to live righteously, i.e. those that still find a law of sin in their flesh even though with their mind and inward man they still try and want everyday to live for and serve God (Romans 7:21-25). These are people that, through any evil heart of unbelief, knowingly depart from the Living God (Hebrews 3:12) and the heavenly places in which God had brought them and given to them as joint-heirs with Christ to actively pursue the lusts/works of the flesh, even denying the Lord that bought them (2 Peter 2:1). They choose to love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil (John 3:19). They therefore are condemned (See Romans 8:1 where it is shown that only those that walk in the Spirit have the right to not have condemnation in their life in Christ Jesus. Those that walk in the flesh will suffer condemnation.).

At this point, they are effectively lost, without Christ, i.e. they have once again become aliens from the commonwealth of Israel. They have made themselves to become strangers from the covenants of promise. They are now without hope because they are without God in the world (Ephesians 2:12).

They have rejected and treated the blood of Jesus Christ, which saved them, as an unholy thing (Hebrews 10:29).

In this case, I do not believe that we are talking about the average "backslider" that hasn't been to church in a month or so but comes back around after awhile. Or the new convert that struggles against lust and falls in and out prior to achieving a mature love of God in Christ. I think that this passage of Scripture is talking about those that have, in the past, truly put off the works of the old man and his lusts, matured in Christ, and then sometime later, for whatever reason, resurrect their old man and choose death over life, whether because they were offended, took temptation too casually, busied themselves too much to pray, or some other form of unbelief.

For these, then, appears an impossibility, which from the Greek, in this passage, suggests a lack of ability, of being weak or powerless or having a disability. Of being impotent.

These people don't have the power (i.e. are not authorized by God) to repent again and make it a consistent practice in their lives (See Acts 11:18 and 2 Timothy 2:25 where God, through His authority over the lives of believers, grants or gives repentance to people). Their flesh dominates them, and the cross doesn't seem to be available to them any longer, since Jesus died once and only once, and is not going to die for these people (or anyone else for that matter) again (Romans 6:9-10).

If they want to be saved (and need to be, for sure), they need something else.

[onli-one-jehovi]

Good info Raven.

The scripture came to mind about being twice-dead and plucked up by the roots. Dying twice appears to refer to having been born again, then falling away.

I think these may possibly be some of those who refuse to repent as the judgements hit.

[Jallen]

I have a totally different interpretation of this passage.

Think of who this letter is to - Hebrews.... Jews. There was great persecution against Jews who had "converted" to Christianity from other Jews; and great pressure on them from family, friends, etc. to denounce the faith and return to "Judaism". That's who I believe the writer is talking about - Jews who became followers of Christ and were part of the church, but then later denounced the faith altogether and went back to a "Judaism" that rejected Jesus as Messiah. "backsliding" and "falling away" are not the same thing... although one may lead to the other.

This ties in with Jesus' statement about blaspheming the Holy Ghost. You can't really blaspheme the Holy Ghost until you've been filled with the Holy Ghost, Saul (later Paul) is proof of that. If Paul, after his conversion, had rejected the faith and gone back to "Judaism" I don't believe he could have found repentance (I doubt he would have ever sought it, because it's the Spirit that draws men to God).

But glory to God, he kept the faith to the end in spite of his sufferings! Hallelujah!

[yosemite]

I have a totally different interpretation of this passage.

Think of who this letter is to - Hebrews.... Jews. There was great persecution against Jews who had "converted" to Christianity from other Jews; and great pressure on them from family, friends, etc. to denounce the faith and return to "Judaism". That's who I believe the writer is talking about - Jews who became followers of Christ and were part of the church, but then later denounced the faith altogether and went back to a "Judaism" that rejected Jesus as Messiah. "backsliding" and "falling away" are not the same thing... although one may lead to the other.

This ties in with Jesus' statement about blaspheming the Holy Ghost. You can't really blaspheme the Holy Ghost until you've been filled with the Holy Ghost, Saul (later Paul) is proof of that. If Paul, after his conversion, had rejected the faith and gone back to "Judaism" I don't believe he could have found repentance (I doubt he would have ever sought it, because it's the Spirit that draws men to God).

But glory to God, he kept the faith to the end in spite of his sufferings! Hallelujah!

good thoughts from all, but i have to agree to this one!!
the Bible says the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.