What has changed?

[Brother Dad]

I'm flat out tired of putting forth the effort when my heart isn't there.

I have found that when ever I got to feeling that way it was usually because I felt isolated.  The best way to fix this is to find an Apostolic rally or conference on evangelism and out reach.  Somewhere there will be a good number of services and alot of people. 

I know many people will say you need to go pray until you feel the right joy.  Prayer is awesome and is needed, even Moses had to have Aaron and Hur hold up his arms.

[titushome]

I agree with Brother Dad about the feelings of isolation being a likely cause.  But I think maybe attending a rally with lots of people isn't the answer.  Instead, I would try to forge more intimate relationships with people in my own church.  It's lack of intimacy that results in feelings of isolation.

[Brother Dad]

It's lack of intimacy that results in feelings of isolation.

Amen, just find a friend in Church.  Also I recommend reading the thread "Humble Pie".

[titushome]

It's lack of intimacy that results in feelings of isolation.

Amen, just find a friend in Church.  Also I recommend reading the thread "Humble Pie".

That's a great thread!

[Tricia Lea]

Hope its ok to throw a thought in here

Could the biggest change be in our heart?

[Brother Dad]

Hope its ok to throw a thought in here

Could the biggest change be in our heart?

I am sure the biggest change is in our heart when we go to feeling that way.  However we must be careful not to listen to our heart all the time. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

We must be sure our heart is not leading us to self satisfaction.

[Backseat Radio]

I'm flat out tired of putting forth the effort when my heart isn't there.

I have found that when ever I got to feeling that way it was usually because I felt isolated.  The best way to fix this is to find an Apostolic rally or conference on evangelism and out reach.  Somewhere there will be a good number of services and alot of people. 

For some feeling socially isolated is what causes their heart to turn to someplace else.  For those in that boat yes they should reach out and make friends.  Those around should also try to reach out to that person if it becomes apparent that they're socially isolating themself. Other things can cause a person's heart to turn away from a particular church or group.  Here's a few...

1)  Emotional collapse under the weight of expectations that can't be lived up to.  When a person constantly hears "Your not good enough", that takes its toll and sooner or later it will either destroy them or they'll look elsewhere to find approval and encouragement.

2)  doctrinal differences...  A person won't stay for very long where they don't agree with whats being taught or practiced.  If they do stay there to please family and such, they won't be putting their full heart and effort into participating and bringing others into the group.

[apsurf]

I just remembered I had some files that Tia had sent me...while not very long in length, she put alot of thought into them.

[Backseat Radio]

I just remembered I had some files that Tia had sent me...while not very long in length, she put alot of thought into them.

I don't even remember what I sent you    Been too long ago

[apsurf]

Wasn't it something about a proposal?  LOL!  Just kidding!!!!

IT was some files with a chart on HG baptism and some of your thoughts on it.

[Brother Dad]

For some feeling socially isolated is what causes their heart to turn to someplace else.  For those in that boat yes they should reach out and make friends.  Those around should also try to reach out to that person if it becomes apparent that they're socially isolating themself. Other things can cause a person's heart to turn away from a particular church or group.  Here's a few...

1)  Emotional collapse under the weight of expectations that can't be lived up to.  When a person constantly hears "Your not good enough", that takes its toll and sooner or later it will either destroy them or they'll look elsewhere to find approval and encouragement.

2)  doctrinal differences...  A person won't stay for very long where they don't agree with whats being taught or practiced.  If they do stay there to please family and such, they won't be putting their full heart and effort into participating and bringing others into the group.

In reality number 1 above can cause number 2.  When we become burnt out on trying to please everyone, we begin to question the very things they stand for.  You are right the Church should be reaching out for those they see slipping into isolation and not become judgmental toward them.  As I said earlier even Moses needed someone to hold his arms up.  If you were closer Sister Mom and I would have you come over for supper and become a friend to you,  But since your not I guess I will just have to try and encourage you from where we are.  I will be praying that God blesses you and encourages you as well.

[Backseat Radio]

Its very common for cases of doctrinal difference to start out as cases emotional collapse from overbearing expectations - probably more so among those that have been raised in that religious teaching.

[Backseat Radio]

For the 3 cases we've been talking about... social isolation, emotoinal collapse from expectations, and doctrinal differences this scripture would apply

Galatians 6:1 (KJV)
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

If a person is trying to pull away from the social network of the church, step in and try to bring them back into fellowship and show them that you care.

If someone is being shoved out of the social network, step in and try to deal with the ones that are pushing that person away from the church.

If a person has suffered emotoinal collapse due to expectations or due to being hurt by someone in the church, try to bridge the gap of forgiveness and healing.

If a person is heading off into false doctrine, attempt in kindness to bring them back around to the true doctrine.


If both emotional and doctrinal componets are involved, the emotoinal componet has to be dealt with first usually before the doctrinal componet can be dealt with.

[Brother Dad]

For the 3 cases we've been talking about... social isolation, emotoinal collapse from expectations, and doctrinal differences this scripture would apply

Galatians 6:1 (KJV)
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

If a person is trying to pull away from the social network of the church, step in and try to bring them back into fellowship and show them that you care.

If someone is being shoved out of the social network, step in and try to deal with the ones that are pushing that person away from the church.

If a person has suffered emotoinal collapse due to expectations or due to being hurt by someone in the church, try to bridge the gap of forgiveness and healing.

If a person is heading off into false doctrine, attempt in kindness to bring them back around to the true doctrine.


If both emotional and doctrinal componets are involved, the emotoinal componet has to be dealt with first usually before the doctrinal componet can be dealt with.

These are awesome thoughts and I agree with everyone of them  I am going to save them in my computer so I may can use them to teach with someday.  If the Church needs to ask god to open our eyes so we may see the hurting people.  The devil likes to attack our wounded souls.  Thank you BSR for laying this out in such a way.  I really agree with dealing with the emotional first.  When I have preached for years that Jesus became a friend first.  Then He became salvation.  We need to befriend people first then they will be more open to doctrine.  God Bless You

[The Purple Fuzzy]

Friendship evangelism... They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[Brother Dad]

BSR has posted some great thoughts.  It makes my mind realize the Church needs to check our LOVE level.  I think one thing that has changed is the way we love and care one for another.

[Brother Dad]

One of the greatest things about the GP meet up in IN back in April was the love we all showed to one another.  we had just meet many of us for the first time and you could feel the family ties.

[Backseat Radio]

have we gotten a reputation for abandoning our wounded?  Are we being like the priest and the levite in the story of the good samaritian and leaving the job of binding up wounds to those that aren't even part of the faith?  Who do you suppose the person will cling to... those that passed by on the other side of the road and ignored their need or those that cared enough to stop and help them?  If the ones that cared about them are part of another faith, don't be surprised if that person becomes part of that other faith shortly down the line.

[Brother Dad]

have we gotten a reputation for abandoning our wounded?  Are we being like the priest and the levite in the case of the good samaritian and leaving the job of binding up wounds to those that aren't even part of the faith?  Who do you suppose the person will cling to... those that passed by on the other side of the road and ignored their need or those that cared enough to stop and help them?  If the ones that cared about them are part of another faith, don't be surprised if that person becomes part of that other faith shortly down the line.

This so true.  We must take time to pick up our wounded.  I think that sometimes we are so concerned about how many new folks we can get baptized, we forget about those God has trusted us with.  I am all for soul winning, but what does it advantage us to if we don't take care of the ones we have.  New people would come in more easily when they see we really love one another.  I encourage us all to reach out to those in our own church and lift them up.  Sometimes all it takes is letting someone know you care.

[Backseat Radio]

John 13:35 KJV
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

[ChangedByGod]

Mybe also some who are wounded in the church have seen how others that are wounded have been treated and they themselves start reaching out for help other places besides their church, being afraid to reach out to their own

[Brother Dad]

Mybe also some who are wounded in the church have seen how others that are wounded have been treated and they themselves start reaching out for help other places besides their church, being afraid to reach out to their own

This very true.   Even more true for those whose family is in the ministry.  They can get a sense of helplessness because they feel there is no one to talk to.  This is why we need to pray and ask God to open our eyes so we may see the husrting.  It is not easy for someone to ask for help.  Love would reach out remember John 3:16.

[ChangedByGod]

True

And sadly some people are afraid to reach out asking for help that by the time the people in the church realize somthings wrong, They are gone, either to the world or a false church.

The devil wants us to feel isolated, If we are he can send those he wants to "help" us

[Backseat Radio]

Mybe also some who are wounded in the church have seen how others that are wounded have been treated and they themselves start reaching out for help other places besides their church, being afraid to reach out to their own

This very true.   Even more true for those whose family is in the ministry.  They can get a sense of helplessness because they feel there is no one to talk to. 

What Bro Dad says is so true.  All too often a minister or pastor is so involved in his ministry that he neglects to minister to those that are most important to him... his family.  Then he wonders later why his wife leaves him for someone else or why his kids leave the church and turn bitter towards the church.  This could also go for non ministry families that are heavily involved in the church.

[Backseat Radio]

True

And sadly some people are afraid to reach out asking for help that by the time the people in the church realize somthings wrong, They are gone, either to the world or a false church.

could this be because when they or someone close to them did reach out for help, those that should have been helping ignored them or even pushed them away?   If you or someone close to you has already been ignored or pushed away by a ministry or church when seeking help, are you likely to try again to seek help from that ministry or church?  A hurting person who is turned away will eventually get to where they won't reach out for help anymore. 

A hurting person can also eventually get to where they'll push away any attempts to help them.