What has changed?

[ChangedByGod]

I just spent almost 3 weeks in the hospital due to a medical condition I have. 3 days after being there I was roomed up with a lady that has the same thing. Her grandfather, who is 91 came and sat with her almost daily. Her grandfather and I, over that period of time had some very interesting conversations, that has got me thinking.
He grew up in the early days of this pentecostal movement and was in it until I think he said his early 30s. He was telling me some stories, not secondhand but stuff he saw for himself, of people being healed, like a young man that was paralysed from a fall as a kid, and due to lack of use both his legs had become stiff and not even where they appeared to be usable. He came to a meeting and was anointed and prayed for by several men. He not only got up and started walking but started running around the tent. Thats just one of many stories he personally witnessed. He was telling of how people came in and the spirit would be so strong, that the alters would just fill up with people wanting what the others had. And that back then you did not have people tarrying for the Holy Ghost, It was they got it right then like in acts as he put it. He says the power of God was so strong. There was no doubt what it was and even people walking by knew something was there.
He was telling me also they had daily prayer meetings, some that would last into the wee hours of the morning. Church did not end at 9pm but many times would end around midnight or later.
Thats just a bit of things he was telling me about Church back then

Anyways he told me in his 30s, he got caught up to as he put it, moving to the city and running a store there. Well through that church was not important in his mind. and  he said with him not raising his kids in church. He has 2 out of his 4 kids that re found this on their own and has 5 grandkids and 2 great grandkids in church.
He has told me every few years he has had an inkling to go and will go to an apostolic church and he says while he likes it. Its nothing like back in the old days. And he broke down sobbing and was telling me how much it hurts him that he just wants to find what they had back then.
Two months ago. They had a bday party for him and while there  he heard his grandson saying how glad he was that church had been condensed to one service on sunday due to gas being too much and that they canceled the one prayer meeting too they had each week because no one would come.
He said the last church service he attended. There was an evangelist preaching and the preacher came and sat on the pew in front of him and at 8:45 was looking at the evangelist and when he made eye contact raised up his arm a bit and taped on his watch and it was then the evangelist made the alter call and they were out of church in 5 min after that.

You would have to get to know this guy, but he was not complaining but rather he was in tears alot wishing he could find what the church had back then.

What has changed?  Has the church changed?




An interesting side note, He was telling me the group he was with was located in Alabama and his preacher then had never heard of azusa street or any of the movements as news didn't travel well as he put it out in the boondocks but that God started pouring out the spirit there and even reveled the need for baptism and it being in Jesus name back around 1910

[titushome]

I think one thing that has changed is that the people of God now desire less a genuine move of God than we desire a nice, tidy "church service" where more or less the same things always happen and we always finish about the same time.  We desire less a real, life-changing expression of Christ through the assembly of His Body than we desire an event where other people do most of the work, and we can just sit back and enjoy the show.  We desire less to have real, meaningful, potentially messy relationships with others in the family of God than we desire relatively superficial relationships where we don't have to do much more than say "Praise the Lord" while shaking people's hands on Sunday mornings.

[ChangedByGod]

It amazed me some of the things he said he seen back then.  Hes been out since his 30s and now at his age he dont see it as the same church that was back then. 

Is it possible for the church to go back to what we seen back then or are just a modern version?

Just some stuff that talking to him so much got in my mind

Even is the church as a whole willing to make the sacrifices they did back then?

Please pray for me. I have been out myself and talking to this guy has made me think alot myself

Angela


Also plz pray for him. His name is Hubert

[OGIA]

Angela:

I am by no means "right" enough with God to cast judgment on the local assemblies as a whole.  I am as guilty as others, at times, of church being "routine".  I got in that rut for about a year.  It just seems the thing to do when it seems everyone else is doing it; when everyone else neglects the things that made church what it was in this man's early life.

However, God mercifully prods me as needed and He shows me people who still have the passion they knew years ago.  They still pray and fast and seek God.  They may not be altering the services and restoring those long nights in services and prayer meetings, etc; but they are still seeking God.  It reminds me of the prophet who thought he was the only one left serving God.  It sure looked like it on the outside, but God knew differently.

I have got to stay focused on Him and not others.  Others will fail and disappoint.  They will not "pull their weight" or exhibit concern for the local assembly.  But, there are those who are enduring in a time of extreme apathy, complacency and selfishness (always wanting something instead of desiring to give something to the service/God).  I am struggling to keep my eyes on Calvary and on the hope of His return.  I can't let what others are doing keep me out of heaven!! 

I've got to pray, deny myself, seek His will and direction and be obedient to the man He has put me under.  Not easy.  In fact it's just downright difficult at times.  But, I keep asking for mercy and grace.  If my heart is right, He will provide them both.  I have that confidence in Him.

Hang in there.  It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.  But....so what?  I promise you it WILL be worth it!!!

[yosemite]

wow!! OGIA that was a gooden. i couldnt top it or even give much more advise except to not look upon the church's time settings if you or he wants to pray, letem cut the lights out and you or he could pray at home. have charity and go out into the highway and hedges, and like OGIA says be obedient and keep your eyes on calvary. i too knew a church that stayed till the wee hours. my thoughts are that the apostolic churches are letting in more of the world and letting more of the standards slip, for i too am one tarrying to receive the gift.

[ChangedByGod]

I apologize if I sounded like I was judging. Wasn't my intention. Just after talking to this guy, It got me thinking

[OGIA]

You didn't come across as judging.  If you are referring to my post, I started it that way as a disclaimer to indicate that I didn't want to come across as the judge of what is called "church" today.  I took your post as sincere and concerned.  I am, too.   :grin:

[yosemite]

You didn't come across as judging.  If you are referring to my post, I started it that way as a disclaimer to indicate that I didn't want to come across as the judge of what is called "church" today.  I took your post as sincere and concerned.  I am, too.   :grin:

dito!! i just added that it seems the church is more worried about the world and its time schedule than "haveing church" as in the ole days.

[iridiscente]

Or just sick of people. Tired of interaction and putting forth more effort for a cause we don't really believe in. I don't have enough faith or will power or desire to even want to go to a church service that lasts all day and all night. I'm too selfish, I have too much to do, I'm sick of fighting with a screaming baby all service to the point that I'd rather not go most of the time. I know I'm wrong, but that doesn't change things.

[Backseat Radio]

here's some things I'd venture to say has changed...

1)  As a whole Christians don't put much time anymore into developing a personal relationship with God.  For years my own relationship with God consisted of the list of church activities I was involved in and what little praying we did at church.  It wasn't until recent years that I've started trying to develop the daily disciplines of prayer and Bible study. Our daily lives have become more bogged down with other interests and responsiblities that we tend to neglect daily time with God.

2) We've exchanged deep studies of the word of God for something thats little more than a motivational speech with a few verses tucked in. 

3) Seems we've exchanged encouragement and love for guilt trips and fear as the ways to motivate people.

[Backseat Radio]

Or just sick of people. Tired of interaction and putting forth more effort for a cause we don't really believe in.

The 2nd part of your statement here is very true.  When doubts about any faith system begins to take root one of the first things it causes is the person not to put forth the whole hearted effort into supporting that faith system.  If the causes of those doubts are never addressed, the doubter eventually either leaves that faith system, or keeps a facade of faith up to keep from rocking the boat.

[onli-one-jehovi]

So, what do we about it?

[titushome]

The first and main thing, of course, is personal: it's up to me to maintain my intimate relationship with God to the best of my ability.

It's also up to me to reach out to others and attempt to forge the relationships I wish to have with them; if I just wait for it happen on its own, it never will.

It's up to me to be as involved as I am able in my church, and to not let anyone make me feel guilty about those times I'm not able to contribute much - such as when my baby is fussy and requires my attention (my wife and I are currently often experiencing this ).

[onli-one-jehovi]

The first and main thing, of course, is personal: it's up to me to maintain my intimate relationship with God to the best of my ability.

It's also up to me to reach out to others and attempt to forge the relationships I wish to have with them; if I just wait for it happen on its own, it never will.

It's up to me to be as involved as I am able in my church, and to not let anyone make me feel guilty about those times I'm not able to contribute much - such as when my baby is fussy and requires my attention (my wife and I are currently often experiencing this ).

Agreed.

Babies take priority. 

[Brother Dad]

I think one thing that has changed is that the people of God now desire less a genuine move of God than we desire a nice, tidy "church service" where more or less the same things always happen and we always finish about the same time.  We desire less a real, life-changing expression of Christ through the assembly of His Body than we desire an event where other people do most of the work, and we can just sit back and enjoy the show.  We desire less to have real, meaningful, potentially messy relationships with others in the family of God than we desire relatively superficial relationships where we don't have to do much more than say "Praise the Lord" while shaking people's hands on Sunday mornings.

That's about what I see.  It is time to repent and get our lives right with God.

[Backseat Radio]

So, what do we about it?

As Titus already pointed out I think doing something about it starts with us as individuals. We're the ones that need to recognize these issues in our own life and put forth effort to do something about them.

Another area I think we've changed is we've gotten the idea that quantity is better than quality.  It seems to me our daily check list is focused on the wrong place as it consists of things like...

# of hours spent in prayer
# of hours spent studying the Bible
# of chapters read in the Bible
# of hours spent involved in church services and church activities

Lots of hours in these things is great if we're reaping good from the amount of time we spend in the activity. But if we're not getting much good from it we need to rethink our ideas and put them in terms of quality of what we're putting into it and getting out of it instead of the amount of time spent in the activity.

[Brother Dad]

It amazed me some of the things he said he seen back then.  Hes been out since his 30s and now at his age he dont see it as the same church that was back then. 

Is it possible for the church to go back to what we seen back then or are just a modern version?

Just some stuff that talking to him so much got in my mind

Even is the church as a whole willing to make the sacrifices they did back then?

Please pray for me. I have been out myself and talking to this guy has made me think alot myself

Angela


Also plz pray for him. His name is Hubert

The question should not be can Church be what it was back then.  The question should be what am I going to do to make the Church more Spirit more alive in our services.  God has not change, the people have changed.  I am reminded of something I heard the other day.  A woman put a note on the mirror of her bathroom, it said "Revival starts with me".  Everytime she went to get ready she seen the very one that she must be concerned about bringing in revival.  As for can it be like it used to be, Yes if you and I are willing to pay the price.

[Brother Dad]

For years my own relationship with God consisted of the list of church activities I was involved in and what little praying we did at church.  It wasn't until recent years that I've started trying to develop the daily disciplines of prayer and Bible study. Our daily lives have become more bogged down with other interests and responsiblities that we tend to neglect daily time with God.

2) We've exchanged deep studies of the word of God for something thats little more than a motivational speech with a few verses tucked in. 

3) Seems we've exchanged encouragement and love for guilt trips and fear as the ways to motivate people.

Isn't it amazing how we can get so wrapped up in our Church activities we forget what we there for in the first place.  Not just you bsr, but all of us can so engrossed in the Work of the Lord we forget the Lord.

[Brother Dad]

So, what do we about it?

As Titus already pointed out I think doing something about it starts with us as individuals. We're the ones that need to recognize these issues in our own life and put forth effort to do something about them.

Another area I think we've changed is we've gotten the idea that quantity is better than quality.  It seems to me our daily check list is focused on the wrong place as it consists of things like...

# of hours spent in prayer
# of hours spent studying the Bible
# of chapters read in the Bible
# of hours spent involved in church services and church activities

Lots of hours in these things is great if we're reaping good from the amount of time we spend in the activity. But if we're not getting much good from it we need to rethink our ideas and put them in terms of quality of what we're putting into it and getting out of it instead of the amount of time spent in the activity.

Again right on!!  Many times we read our Bible, pray, and do the other things just because we fell it is the right thing to do.  But we should do them desiring a closer walk with God and seeking true Revival.

Also for the record I like the unity on this thread.  I feel something good can come out of it, as I see we are looking to ourselves for the problem.

[iridiscente]

Also for the record I like the unity on this thread.  I feel something good can come out of it, as I see we are looking to ourselves for the problem.

I like that too.

[Raven180]

Isn't it a difference between following Church and following Christ?

Even the man in question admitted to leaving his first love. He got "caught up".

Maybe too many early Pentecostals got "caught up" too, abandoning Christ and didn't leave the kind of legacy in the Church that the man is now seeking but not finding in modern congregations?

[ChangedByGod]

Or just sick of people. Tired of interaction and putting forth more effort for a cause we don't really believe in.

Wow That right thre just reminded me of a preacher that preached a revival when I was a teen. He spent the whole week with the topic " How much do we believe what we say we believe". Was sorta stuff like Do we believe things enoygh to take action,. Was different sermons but he stuck to that topic.  Just thinking about it got me thinking if I still believe as I say I do even not being in church, Why am I not doing anything

So, what do we about it?

As Titus already pointed out I think doing something about it starts with us as individuals. We're the ones that need to recognize these issues in our own life and put forth effort to do something about them.

Another area I think we've changed is we've gotten the idea that quantity is better than quality.  It seems to me our daily check list is focused on the wrong place as it consists of things like...

# of hours spent in prayer
# of hours spent studying the Bible
# of chapters read in the Bible
# of hours spent involved in church services and church activities

Lots of hours in these things is great if we're reaping good from the amount of time we spend in the activity. But if we're not getting much good from it we need to rethink our ideas and put them in terms of quality of what we're putting into it and getting out of it instead of the amount of time spent in the activity.

True I guess its mre why do we do as we do not what do we do

[ChangedByGod]

Isn't it a difference between following Church and following Christ?

Even the man in question admitted to leaving his first love. He got "caught up".

Maybe too many early Pentecostals got "caught up" too, abandoning Christ and didn't leave the kind of legacy in the Church that the man is now seeking but not finding in modern congregations?

I guess things change slowly so if he stayed in it, it might not have been so noticable to him, but he was out so long that to him its like night and day.

You know I do believe God put his daughter in the same room as me as I have been so sick lately, I have just been ready to give up and die. I dont know, just talking to him has been an inspiration to me. Me and his daughter have become friends so hopefully I will see more  of Hubert

[yosemite]

wow! hang in there.

[Brother Dad]

I guess things change slowly so if he stayed in it, it might not have been so noticable to him, but he was out so long that to him its like night and day.

The danger is when become comfortable in our surroundings.  It is said you can take a frog and put in a pot of boiling water he will jump out.  But if you put him in cold water and slowly heat the water to a boil he sit there until he cooks to death.  As we sit in church and the surroundings slowly change we don't notice it.  After a while what we held dear no longer matters.  Also the further we get from our roots the more we are willing to settle for less.  I remember a time in my life that I was 210 lbs and wnated to lose weight.  Now if I could just get down to 210 I would be happy.  The same thing happens to us in our walk with God.  We get to the place where will settle for less than what we used to expect out of our Christian life.  We settle for ourselves doing less.